Vitamin D theory

[Defenbaker]

There has been some mention in the media concerning the role of Vitamin D in helping to fight the virus, particularly if the lungs are affected. Also, Vitamin D deficiency might be one of the reasons why there is a higher percentage of deaths in people from the BAME population in the UK, because dark skin struggles to make sufficient amounts of Vit D in the UK climate.

I wonder if this issue may also be relevant in the many elderly people who have died with/of the virus? Remembering my elderly parents in their final years, they got precious little sunshine as they lost mobility in old age, and preferred to sit indoors on a comfy sofa, rather than go outside in their lovely (previously cherished) garden. Also, when Dad eventually went into a care home, it was nigh on impossible to get him to go out into the garden there, no matter how sunny it was. The other residents were just the same - they developed an aversion to fresh air and sunshine!

I take a Vit D supplement during the winter, but get plenty of sunshine the rest if the year, pottering about in my garden, so figure I don't need it then. I tan fairly easily and definitely feel healthier and happier once I have decent dose of sun each day. So, I am offsetting the risk of skin cancer against the benefits of a light tan, and the possible help that Vit D might give me, to fight the virus if I catch it.

Do you think that Vit D has a key role to play in fighting this virus? Do GPs tend to prescribe Vit D supplements for elderly people, as a general way to support health? (I know that Dad was given multivitamins in the care home, as his appetite declined towards the end.)

Twitter thread about all the clinical trials going on with vit D and the alternative risk factors. In the middle of that thread is a link to studies why vitamin D needs to be measured differently in people of colour from how it's measured in white people (they are more at danger of overdose, African Americans have better bones because they absorb more vitD than the usual test suggests). Even Michael Horlick has respected these findings (I think the article says).

It's all interesting & not simple. I suspect some other gene expression is at work re covid19.

Most people in the UK are deficient in vitamin D - especially when coming out of the winter months, as we were in March

I dont think vitamin D has anything to do with it. Africans living in Africa are not dying at the same rate as they are in Europe. I find it strange how lack of vitamin D has not been "deadly" for BAME people up until now. I truly think the disproportionate deaths are to do with the kinds of work these people do and the inequalities that exist in society but have never been seriously addressed, racism being one of them.

Just imagine if at the end if this we find out vitamin D does help and we've spent months telling people to stay at home/ fining for sun bathing/ closing beauty spots etc effectively telling people to not do what might save them, appreciate more to it than that but the princible is possible.

I believe it's a big factor in severity.

I won't stop you catching it but seems to help with serious side effects.

I can't poo poo it as who would have though something as simple a vitamin deficiency would cause such huge and serious diseases

Vit c. Scurvy
Vit d rickets
Folic acid b vit. Spina bifida

I'm sure there are many many more too

There have been studies on vit d effects and severity of pneumonia in BAME for a number of years now.

@koffeetoast
Africans living in Africa don't tend to have the same Vit D problems as they get more sun!

I dont think vitamin D has anything to do with it. Africans living in Africa are not dying at the same rate as they are in Europe.

koffeetoast - You seem to be contradicting yourself as your second sentence suggests that vit D does have something to do with it.
Africans living in Africa will get more vitamin D from the sun than they would living in Europe.

‘I truly think the disproportionate deaths are to do with the kinds of work these people do and the inequalities that exist in society but have never been seriously addressed,‘

I think it’s the combination. If you are BAME you are more likely to be a shift worker which makes you more likely to have low vitamin d levels. You are 4 times (!!!) as likely to not have a garden.
It is meaningless to look at vitamin D while ignoring the inequality issues, but vitamin D will feed into the web of causes and should not be ignored when considering mitigations.

Vitamin D anecdotally amongst my friends has a positive impact on mood and so my family and friends all take a supplement during the winter months. It's not expensive so you don't need a prescription. Just buy a bottle and one squirt into your mouth every morning makes the world of difference. Whether it will help if you get CV19 I don't know but I feel much less gloomy with it.

This is just an example of how the government have been wilfully ignorant about immune system factors that contribute to a worse impact of the disease if you get it

Vitamin as is certainly in there , the research is clear

So is diet. Not just obesity, diet

There has been a strong link made between severity of respiratory problems and vit D deficiency for many years already.

I dont think vitamin D has anything to do with it. Africans living in Africa are not dying at the same rate as they are in Europe.

Well Africa is pretty hot sunshine wide so they obviously get more sunshine from the sun so more vitamin D 😁

But also lots of people who take vitamin D tablets and general vitamin tablets also don’t realise that they might not be able to absorb them .
If you have had gallstones removed gastric surgery and stomach type surgery can often mean you can’t absorb Vitamin D / Vitamins as a tablet type and need to take liquid / sprays types instead
.

OP, your line about it being impossible to get elderly people outside resonated with me. My fil, who is 93 with alzheimers, resolutely refuses to go outside at all now, even though there is a safe and private place he can sit adjacent to his flat in sheltered housing. this is because of 'the germs' (coronavirus). It is such a shame, and he is almost transparent these days, what with the thinned skin of old age and extreme paleness.
I have been taking vit.D since last autumn and it has certainly improved my mood/sleep/energy, so even if it doesn't help against the current virus, I certainly feel more positive about everything, so that is a bonus.

My mil with cancer in her last six months rarely went outside. She certainly NEVER sat out. She stayed on sofa and looked out instead.

We were born to live outside naturally.
We need light and sunshine as much as pxygen and water.

It's not a 'theory' there's any amount of evidence that Vit D has a critical role the severity of respiratory infections.

I have always opted out of the suncream hysterical, the kids get at least 2 hours exposure before it goes on, I almost never wear it as none of us burn. Sunscreen manufacturers have caused nationwide deficiencies in my view (I have friends who won't even allow their DC 10 mins of sun without slathering them in chemicals).

During the pandemic we are also supplementing.

Anecdotally the children and I never get colds or flu, I do wonder if my disdain for the suncream hysteria is linked.

Trying to get my 87 year old Dad outside is just impossible - I've got him some Vit D just have to hope he takes them now 🤦

Didn't cancer rates drop when people started using sunscreen?

I have to use it as I really do burn fast, and its horrible. Ugh I can feel it all over my head and arms now!

I think that everyone in the UK should take Vit D supplements, esp in winter. And I've said all along that the 'advice' to stay indoors, the fury at people sunbathing (cos it's 'not allowed'! ) and the closing of beaches and parks was absolutely batshit.

Vit D helps grow strong bones, starting with the marrow. The Marrow is the area of the body where Red Blood Cells are made; Red Blood Cells are used to transport Oxygen round the body. When we get COvid, these cells are restricted by the lungs not getting the Oxygen we need. It makes sense to me to have the healthiest Red Blood Cells we possibly can, even without this virus.

People need to be outside, getting Vit D on their bodies, getting fresh air and exercise. This boosts your Mental health, your Physical health and your immune system! Sitting indoors will wreak absolute havok with your Mental and Physical health, and that alone is detrimental to your immune system. The advice to sit indoors is also (IMO) allowing your Immune system to sit back and get lazy and flabby. Get it working, get exposed to LOW LEVELS of all types of bugs and germs, and you have a Healthy, fighting-fit Immune system.

People who spray and disinfect shopping/post/clothes/people/everything in sight are not using the defence their bodies innately have. And in the future, when they stop disinfecting everything damn thing, they will pick up all sorts of germs, because their Immune systems are fat and lazy and not being used.

I also do not subscribe to the sun cream obsession either Grobags and DD is looking nice and brown at the moment which on MN is seen as disgraceful. I prefer to use hats/t shirts first over sun cream
In fact I am wary of some of the chemicals in high street sun screens as there is a suggestion that they are hormone disruptors and can cause cancers. There are also other theories such as a high intake of polyunsaturated oils being linked to skin cancer.

I expect this is why we've been allowed to exercise outdoors throughout lockdown. Lots of Brits leave their coats off and start wandering round in shorts sleeve tshirts as soon as the temperature reaches double figures and the first sign of sun, think it'll do us good this year.
I'm another one who rarely wears suncream, usually only if I'm sunbathing or doing gardening for a few hours, then I'll just put a bit on my shoulders. That said, I did know a lady who died of melanoma in her '40s, still got to be careful if you're fair skinned.

That's interesting Grobags, I've always covered my children in sun cream (at least factor 20), but they're all over ten now and I've been ill so I've left it up to them this year and they've gone a lovely colour. I felt a bit guilty tbh, and now I don't, thank you (smile).

You only need 15 mins of sun to make vit d. Preferably mid day You need arms and legs exposed. But once 15 mins is up you can apply sunscreen.

@EthelMayFergus it will definitely have done them good to top up their Vit D levels this year :)

@whenwillthemadnessend Do you have a scientific article to support that? I know that's the line pedalled by sun cream manufacturers but I've never seen the peer reviewed evidence.

If it was true, than half the nation wouldn't be vit D deficienct...