I'm finding the reaction to covid utterly bizarre

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

If anyone had told me that healthy, fit people would willingly put their livelihoods at risk and deny their children an education for months on end, that they would send the country into recession putting healthcare, education and public services at risk for years and years to come to avoid getting a disease that had a very very small chance of killing them I wouldn't have believed it. If you'd said people would be afraid to talk to their healthy siblings I wouldn't have believed it.

I had measles in the 1980s as small child - the vaccination programme where I lived was slow to get off the ground - and it nearly killed me. In 1980 2.6 million people worldwide died of measles, a very large proportion of them children. No one ever considered a lockdown, it was never even suggested.

I think all the analysis of this situation in the coming years won't be about the pandemic, but about the contagion of fear that made people so terrified of something that wasn't a real threat to them that they created huge, long-lasting, in some cases devastating problems for themselves, problems that were nothing to do with their virus and everything to do with their reaction to the virus.

I’m in my 40s with no underlying health issues and I caught covid in early March. I had the usual symptoms of fever, flu like feeling followed by pneumonia, not bad enough to go to hospital but quite sick. And then I thought I was getting better... however I am not. Every time I do anything active for example an hour’s gardening, I get sick again, 39 degree fever, aches & pains, can’t get out of bed for days. It’s been going on for over 8 weeks now. I know I am not alone there are articles published saying people like me are more common than those who ended up in hospital. Apparently 50% of people are mostly unaffected by it, but that leaves 50% of people who are possibly crippled by this virus for months or even permanently. We have absolutely no idea what this illness does to people long term. And that absolutely has to be factored in before deciding on a herd immunity scenario.

The inability to realise that lockdown also has some risk (reduced healthcare such as cancer diagnosis, decreased fitness, increased weight, reduced vitamin D levels all of which are known to increase mortality).

The reduced cancer diagnosis is nothing to do with lockdown. It is to do with the NHS prioritising people with Covid. I agree that needs to reorganise now. However, letting Covid cases increase is really not going to help people with other health conditions especially when many of them will be more vulnerable to it. Regarding fitness and weight, people generally choose to stay fit and not put on weight if they want to. People can still go outside so no reason why there should be reduction of vitamin D levels either.

Totally agree OP. The world has gone mad.

The whole camaraderie of it all is actually giving me the dry boak

Omg me too! It’s like we’ve all been indoctrinated into a giant lockdown club. And joining clubs ain’t me.

Everyone collectively bakes cakes, everyone collectively claps, collectively dances, people seem to be in a dream.

I guess it’s supposed to make you feel supported, part of the whole thing but I just find it strange, overwhelming, a bit cultish and quite unsettling

@poetryinaction

How can you not comprehend that the smaller numbers of COVID deaths are because of the worldwide lockdown.

It's literally the reaction to COVID that means the number of worldwide deaths from it are lower.

Surely you must be able to comprehend that?

Do you really think the world closes down the economy for months for nothing?

@ThisAint yes! That sums it up very well for me.

Thankfully the cuntishly callous post by @Hunnybears has been deleted.

The difference is that the lockdown will hurt/kill the isolated and the poor. Whereas covid (mainly) hurts/kills the medically vulnerable and the old

No- Covid-19 deaths are twice as likely if you are poor. Covid-19 tracks social disadvantage very strongly (which may be for all kinds of reasons, like the type of work people do on low wage, living in worse conditions, less response from health-care). Poorer people are affected disproportionately BOTH by corona and by lockdown/economic depression. Which is not surprising.

@Welllwasintheneighbourhoo, I am the same as you. Got it mid March the week before lockdown. Usual symptoms to start but now left with burning lungs and shortness of breath on any exertion. It's frightening as I wonder if I will have long term damage. Exercised regularly beforehand. Can't see a doctor as they don't want to expose themselves.

WellIwas what you describe is exactly my situation. So many posters piling in here with no medical expertise whatsoever making sweeping claims based on limited understanding of the limited evidence that we have on this disease. The story is far from over as to the long term implications of Covid.

But hey, it was obviously a mistake to stop the NHS from being overwhelmed (and which would have resulted in far greater number of both covid and non covid deaths) and a mistake to stop the general population from being exposed to a completely unknown zoonotic virus. Personally, I think the OP is a Russian bot trying to sow the seeds of political and social discord and they have done a damn fine job. Well done there OP.

@SidSparrow for actual boak, look at the a Scottish Government's video poem about all being in it together.. on their social media channels

Sweden is totally fine and they did nothing

😂😂😂

1). Sweden has the 8th highest covid death rate in the world on a per capita basis

2). They went the route of giving guidance / requests, relying on a populace to apply some intelligence and common sense

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am concerned but not scared. My mum is super scared but she is shielding so understandable.

My GP brother thinks most of us will have had it but who knows?

virus does not belong in people and no-one knows how their body will respond until they have it. There is no herd immunity, vaccination or preventative measures other than social distancing and good hand hygiene. Standing close to an infected person for 15 minutes and you have it. It lives on plastics, paper and cardboard for some time.
I’ve been told it’s three weeks in bed with symptoms such as: fluctuating temperature, very lethargic, food tastes like plastic, breathing difficulties, might have a cough, aches and pains, some have a sore throat, some have a headache. No appetite, no concentration.
One person got it on a train from London to Manchester, three independent people through community transmission, including a child, a family from a holiday in Austria, another from work colleagues who spent a weekend in Italy, another got it from a friend who had been to Italy and was told to return to work and it spread to the rest of the workforce.
My own GP told me that I don’t want to get it. And it’s not always older people either, anyone can get it.

@ThisAintNoPartyThisAintNoDisco

Cultish indeed! And you know what happens to free thinkers in cults...

@Mascotte Thankfully I can't find the train wreck of a poem.

The Swedish place in the global deaths per million is irrelevant. It is the absolute deaths that matter. They were told by Imperial college that their measures would result in an R of 2.6, there would be uncontrolled spread and that deaths would be around 40-60,000 by now. Not one single bit of that is true.

They have 3,500 deaths over half of which are elderly in care homes. Yes, all deaths are sad but the average person living in a care home will die within a year. So less than 2,000 deaths are of people with multiple years left to live.

And people are still free to see their friends and family, to work and to judge their risk for themselves. Many in vulnerable categories are self-isolating which makes total sense.

Sweden expect to have herd immunity in June after which normal life can resume. Instead, here the Welsh government said that normal life won’t resume for years.

I know which approach I’d choose and I note the WHO now considers Sweden’s approach as a model to others.

@donquixotedelamancha I think the previous posters were talking about the peak of infection, not deaths (which would probably come a few weeks after the peak of infection given how it progresses)

Anyway @TheDailyCarbuncle, the long and short of this thread is that you're perfectly willing to go back to life as normal. Crack on then.

Yes, it may be wrong but I part of me wishes some posters would crack on and get infected.

Hell yeah

OP - are you an epidemiologist?

😂😂😂

Sweden expect to have herd immunity in June after which normal life can resume. Instead, here the Welsh government said that normal life won’t resume for years.

Without knowing how many have been infected how could they possibly know when they will get herd immunity?. They may have less immunity in the population than us.

Mumlove5, I agree with a lot of that

The fear of the virus is causing more harm than the virus. But the victims of fear measures (cancer/stroke/heart/psychiatric patients not receiving treatment ) are not counted and plastered on the front pages daily.

The nation is gripped by fear

The one thing I'd truly love to see happen thru the societal changes that have happened in the last few months, is a move towards improved environmental sustainability.

Won't happen but god, it would be lovely if it did. Pandemic's one threat to the world, but the slow burner is the environment.

Sweden expect to have herd immunity in June after which normal life can resume.

That’s a distortion of the facts... Last month some in Sweden were hopeful that they would achieve some degree of herd immunity by June. This seems to be likely to be as wrong as (albeit in the other direction) as those predicting 10,000s of deaths. Data has overtaken the predictions in both cases.

If Spain’s mass antibody study has shown 5% having antibodies, with a death rate higher than Sweden... so the idea Sweden is well on the way to herd immunity that’s so extensive things can “get back to normal” in June is no longer credible, and the Swedish are no longer promoting this idea.

I think we have a lot to learn from Sweden and hope we can adopt their more balanced approach, but I find it deeply ironic that many of those so w for Sweden’s approach are the same people who would have caused Sweden’s approach to be unsuccessful!

Sweden required people to take the threat of Covid seriously, socially distance and refrain from certain behaviour voluntarily... many businesses are struggling as a result and they are entering a deep recession. Many of those on here advocating Sweden are Covid-minimisers who believe it’s all overblown and we should pretty much carry on as normal. Had Sweden been full of such people, they would have had to lock down like other places!

OP - are you an epidemiologist?

Yes she's also a social worker, teacher, carer, NHS worker and all round expert on everything.

'The difference is that the lockdown will hurt/kill the isolated and the poor. Whereas covid (mainly) hurts/kills the medically vulnerable and the old. I guess the decision was made that the latter groups get more public sympathy.'

These groups are not mutually exclusive! Poor people are more likely than the better-off to be medically vulnerable in general, and to die of Covid in particular. The old are far more likely to be isolated than any other section of society.