I'm finding the reaction to covid utterly bizarre

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

If anyone had told me that healthy, fit people would willingly put their livelihoods at risk and deny their children an education for months on end, that they would send the country into recession putting healthcare, education and public services at risk for years and years to come to avoid getting a disease that had a very very small chance of killing them I wouldn't have believed it. If you'd said people would be afraid to talk to their healthy siblings I wouldn't have believed it.

I had measles in the 1980s as small child - the vaccination programme where I lived was slow to get off the ground - and it nearly killed me. In 1980 2.6 million people worldwide died of measles, a very large proportion of them children. No one ever considered a lockdown, it was never even suggested.

I think all the analysis of this situation in the coming years won't be about the pandemic, but about the contagion of fear that made people so terrified of something that wasn't a real threat to them that they created huge, long-lasting, in some cases devastating problems for themselves, problems that were nothing to do with their virus and everything to do with their reaction to the virus.

Obviously there is a debate to be had about when and how we should open things up now that we are over the peak. However, it takes a certain level of conceitiness to think you know better than scientists, epidemiologists, medics and other experts all over the world regarding whether lockdown should have happened in the first place. I wonder what all the people who think they're so clever do for a living.

I agree. The entire fabric of society has changes. From flattening the curve to being told we must accept semi permanent social distancing until a vaccine or a cure has happened in the blink of an eye. Small businesses will not survive indefinite social distancing as we can see in Spain. Any mass public intervention like this has direct and indirect health consequences ( putting aside the long term removal of liberty that has now been put in place). On the basis of 'do no harm' we need total transparency about the consequences of the measures that have been taken and the full reasoning the government is using to justify them.

@Thingybob it’s refreshing to read isn’t it, hopefully we can start to get back to some sort of normal. People who want to carry on staying at home can, I don’t know why they want everyone to? We all have our own level of risk to balance our lives by.

we need to put in measures which protect the most vulnerable while allowing the economy to get moving again.

That's what IS happening.

Was Sweden Right?

A huge... YES!!!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/15/europe-emerges-lockdown-question-hangs-was-sweden-right

@Incrediblytired

“ worst case scenario is predicted half a million deaths. ”

That figure was based on a very flawed model.

What's so refreshing is in that in the past 2 days the level of fear mongering in the media and papers has literally disappeared. It's like a normal news cycle, news about other things.

Just really highlights the role the media has had

And? If the UK ends up with 50 or 60k dead is that a victory?

Dont forget that a lot of organisations/businesses closed down unnecessarily. Many businesses weren't required to close. No one forced GPs and hospitals to shut for everything except covid. There was a massive over-reaction fuelled by the media giving the impression everything had to close. The people making decisions threw common sense out of the window, especially NHS managers who completely lost sight of the millions of people needing treatment for non covid conditions such as cancer.

I was told my a friend who is a nurse on the frontline in icu to stay indoors. Avoid catching this. She has witnessed young healthy people dying from it. That was enough for me.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

Yep. My darling nappy died alone in a care home 3 weeks ago. Covid on her death certificate despite NEVER being tested. Had to struggle to watch her breathe over a video call.

I firmly agree with OP.

And? If the UK ends up with 50 or 60k dead is that a victory?

It is a victory if it would have been 500 or 600k by not locking down.

At last, a thread that looks at this in a different way.

If you haven’t read a hundred things like this already, you don’t get out much.

@Mumlove5: You really should’ve credited who wrote that from the start: Lionel Shriver, in The Spectator. It was beautifully written (I especially liked “steeped in dread” – and I don’t even drink tea), but GDP as a measure of anything truly worthwhile? No.

@Mumlove5 Sweden have locked down though and did it a lot more quickly than us. They may not have closed café's, shops, restaurants etc but they told people to stop going to them and people actually followed the advice so businesses will not be making a profit. Many economists don't think they will do better than their neighbouring countries and they already have a lot more deaths.

History will judge us harshly for this I imagine. It’s reassuring that I’m far from alone in thinking there’s been a total overreaction and the damage caused by lockdown will far exceed that caused by the virus. The cost will be on the balance sheets for decades.

Yes, I also feel that it is a completely ridiculous response.

We will have six months total of lockdown in Ireland.

Sweden is totally fine and they did nothing

We’re still having this discussion in May? Fuck me.

Maybe everyone just wanted a good rest and is now comfortable doing bollocks all on 80% pay. Maybe it’s nothing to do with fear of the virus but fear and reluctance of going back to the rat race treadmill when they’ve realised perhaps there’s a different way.

You're in a position of privilege if you know nobody affected by this.

It's arguably also a position of privelledge to not be conscious of the effects outside of covid, and to be willing to lock down almost indefinitely just in case.

@mrpumblechook I have family and friends in Sweden, and they told me that their lives went on exactly the same as before. There was no lockdown there

I also encourage anyone to read the full government response document. Lock down may be lifted but social distancing will remain until a vaccine or therapies. The impact of long term social distancing will prevent many businesses getting back on their feet let alone the mental health impact - we are social creatures. These are not small sacrifices and the government needs to justify them and outline its benefit risk thinking.

@somenerve

I did credit Shriver, in a later post.

Those who oppose lockdown need to be careful.

Epidemiologists disagree about how to deal with covid - it is not the case that they know exactly what to do - that's why the situation has been so different in Sweden. That's understandable because the virus was unknown.

It is now not unknown. And yet people are still acting like standing 1.5 metres away from someone is a seriously dangerous activity.

All the young people leaving university, school and college, with little job prospects, what a price to pay, They have the least risk to coronvirus but their futures are screwed.

It has all been handled terribly.

I saw one MP saying that he knows there will be inquiries into govenrments all around the world after this

I can't bear another three months of this in Ireland. That is the date we have now been given - August 10th