Why do so many people think that lockdown is about getting rid of the virus?

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

At what point did people stop understanding that the purpose of lockdown is to restrict infections, not stop them entirely?

Why are some people saying they're willing to lockdown 'until the virus is gone'? How have they got the idea that that's possible?

[Quartz2208]

@jobhunter7 yes like Germany have. We should be following them and looking to the big powerhouses of Europe. Because like it or not they are the closest match to us in terms of how they work in normal times

New Zealand never had transmission within the country they are isolated out but are going to find opening borders difficult. UK and NZ are very different countries though as is Slovakia.
Vietnam the economic impact will be huge - and different cultures are in place here

As I said I dont think we disagree with the fundamental principle we have screwed up. I just dont think it is realistic to say we would and could have handled it like Vietnam and New Zealand because of the many economic/cultural/geographical/social factors. Saying they have squashed (and we dont know the economic impact either) and we could just isnt true. Slovakia managed because it closed down once it was known it was in Europe on a mass scale. It would have already been in the UK.

[jobhunter7]

@Quartz2208

You may be right. But there does seem much for manoeuvre. And I seem to find it hard understand people who think we should just trust Boris & co know what they are doing.

[Quartz2208]

Oh no they have no clue what they are doing and we have handled it badly I agree with that. I just think we need to be realistic and compare to the other Countries that are similar to us. A New Zealand type lockdown wouldn’t work for us for a multitude of reasons
I also remain unconvinced as to how the NZ model will work long term

[jobhunter7]

Can you draw any comparisons with Hong Kong for example?

[DippyAvocado]

I wish posters would stop going on about herd immunity! This is something that is safely created by mass vaccination. It is not a desirable policy for stopping a pandemic that is raging through the country. The government have said lied that it was never their policy. The chief scientist has said talking about it initially was a mistake. Yet on every Covid-19 thread on MN people bang on about how we are trying to achieve it.

[EarlGreywithLemon]

@flingaling my thoughts exactly.

[jobhunter7]

As I pointed out although we are very different from some other countries, the figures are so still staggeringly different.

China population 1.393 billion
Death toll 4633

I am not saying we can trust these figures - but then I think just about every country juggles their figures.

There does seem still to be an enormous amount we can learn from.

[Quartz2208]

Hong Kong compare no (SARS and HK flu made they v prepared for this) learn yes

I think part of the UK problem that it looks so bad is that we aren’t juggling the figures we are looking at excess deaths there is no where to hide!

[jobhunter7]

@Quartz2208

They have 'seemingly' become more honest with the figures in the UK. But I think were being a bit creative about how they were recorded, weren't they? I read Belgium was being most honest.

[Dontforgetyourbrolly]

My very , very clever sil who spent 8 years studying for an extremely illustrious career , truly believed we would spend 2-3 weeks at home then emerge intonation Corona free world. The mind boggles!
I dont know how I held my tongue but when she found out that's not how viruses work she took it very badly .
So many people are not looking at the whole picture . I blame facebook , I know that makes me feel old but so called intelligent people are taking " Susan from Crewe's" words as gospel instead of the WHO and scientists.

[jobhunter7]

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

I am not sure what Susan from Crewe said, but scientists have differing views.

[greathat]

The aim of lockdown to my understanding was to get cases to the point where they could "track and trace" which they can't do with the current number of cases.

[CayrolBaaaskin]

@DippyAvocado - that’s the policy tho. You’re not going to stop people getting it. It’s too widespread now. Even if it’s eradicated in one country, as soon as borders open it will be back. It will be at least a year until a vaccine is available and a vaccine may never be available. Most people get mild cases. If vulnerable people can try to completely avoid social contact until a vaccine or herd immunity from those catching it. If there’s no vaccine that means most of the population have to catch it.

[DippyAvocado]

It is not the policy! The government themselves have said it's not the policy. No country in the world is pursuing herd immunity, they are trying to reduce the infection rate so they can test, track and trace.

[flingaling]

Argh herd immunity herd immunity, again just repeating what we're told and accepting it.

What does that actually mean?

It means that the "herd" will survive , but for that to happen, weaker members of society will need to be sacrificed. Why is that acceptable as a public policy? Why is it acceptable because it means the virus kills primarily older people and people with underlying health conditions? Would it be less or more acceptable if it killed primarily children? What does this say about us as a society that we accept that the elderly and sick can die in great numbers as an alternative to suppression at the expense of the economy? What is wrong with people???

[jobhunter7]

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-who-uk-matt-hancock-a9510231.html

Matt Hancock denied it was ever the official policy, see article above.

[jobhunter7]

@CayrolBaaaskin

That’s the policy though.

It isn't - not officially at least.

Even if it’s eradicated in one country, as soon as borders open it will be back.

Some countries have extinguished it and you could introduce quarantines, although at what cost to economies? Am unsure.

It will be at least a year until a vaccine is available and a vaccine may never be available.

Nobody seems to be sure if a vaccine will show up... if ever.

The WHO has described the concept of herd immunity as 'dangerous'.

[flingaling]

Matt Hancock may have denied it but I'm sure somewhere there is evidence of Cummings' links to prominent eugenics think tanks as well as Boris sitting on the sofa telling us that we'd all need to "take in on the chin".

[Anyonebut]

:31merrymouse

"One of the slides on the cobra meeting today said only 21%of icu beds are filled with covid patients. So we are well under capacity at hospitals now."

This number on its own doesn't necessarily mean ICU is well under capacity. This completely depends on what spare capacity there was before Covid.

There are still other people in ICU who do not have Covid. There is only spare capacity if ICU have a total capacity of x (usual number of beds in use before Covid) + >21%. Covid occupants being 21%doesn't mean 79%of beds are unoccupied, you need to know what spare capacity was built into the system.

[jobhunter7]

@flingaling

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51538493

this?

[flingaling]

@jobhunter7

not just the sacked aide, Cummings himself

//www.theweek.co.uk/105719/what-is-eugenics-and-why-are-tory-aides-interested-in-it

[jobhunter7]

ONS research:

Black people are 1.9 times more likely to die than white people

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are 1.8 times more likely to die

Indians are around 1.5 times more likely

[merrymouse]

Dippy Avocado is right. Herd immunity is what you get when 90% of the population have been vaccinated against measles, not what you get when you just allow people to catch a disease. If herd immunity could be created reliably by just letting people catch a disease, nobody would bother with vaccinations.



Perhaps that will be true in the long term, but it is not a policy.

[merrymouse]

oops -

"perhaps in the long term it will be true that everyone will catch the virus, but it is not policy".

[itsgettingweird]

I'm interested in the 1918 flu still being around. Sounds daft but that thought hadn't even registered with me. What strain is it? Do we know the R number and is it vaccinated against in the flu jab?