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Who are all these people that will suddenly back at work this week?....

105 replies

Derbygerbil · 11/05/2020 07:09

.... and why weren’t they at work before?
.... and will there be enough work for them to do?

I thought most employers furloughed their staff if lockdown meant there was very little, if any, business, irrespective of whether they had to close.

This helped those businesses massively by effectively paying their salary bill. If the Government are saying they expect people to be back working at those businesses, it implies the furlough is being phased out, for those businesses at least. However, those businesses won’t magically be able to operate as they did before, or even close to it. Aren’t there going to be a load of firms who could survive over the lockdown, but will now go to the wall now they need to be back in business. I can see it might be necessary, but it’s going to be tough.

OP posts:
AravisTarkheena · 11/05/2020 11:22

If you can have a cleaner in I really don’t see why I can’t have a friend over and just sit on opposite sofas.

I really don’t think the “you didn’t need to close in the first place” line is accurate, the government had 6 weeks to clear up the essential work/only if you can’t work from home confusion and chose not to. They were obviously thinking it was for the best as it was.

AravisTarkheena · 11/05/2020 11:24

Also according to the gov.uk info, public meetings of more than two people were banned, so this “new” rule that we can meet one other person and stay distant has always been there.

NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite · 11/05/2020 11:29

@dairyfairies

"anybody with an office job that can be done from home who expects pressure from work now to return to work? My work was making noises last week in anticipation of the BoJo statement.. I know they will probably want people to return now."
The message is still to work from home if you can though. You will have to resist your employer and just quote the Govt's guidelines to them (on repeat if necessary) until such time as the guidelines change.

Stuckforthefourthtime · 11/05/2020 11:31

If you can have a cleaner in I really don’t see why I can’t have a friend over and just sit on opposite sofas.

Because with a cleaner, he/she can wear ppe and not be in a room with anyone else, and is literally disinfecting as they go. It's also their work so they can do helpful things like eat food and pay rent. You and your friend chatting, even from 2m, are filling the air with airborne particles, touching doorknobs etc, just because you don't fancy a Zoom.

Here's a great post, with real-life diagrams and examples, from an epidemiologist. www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

Stuckforthefourthtime · 11/05/2020 11:32

(And fwiw, I'm still paying my cleaner not to come, as I imagine a lot of people who don't 100% need them and are still being paid are doing - and should be doing).

BlingLoving · 11/05/2020 11:34

It's up to the business owners/managers to work out how they can "social distance". You really can't expect the Government to micro manage every single business. All they can do is produce guidelines, which is what they've done.

To a large extent, I agree with this. But... the government just puts this stuff out into a vacuum and that doesn't help.

For example, the public transport thing: if you can, go to work and please avoid public transport. That's a bit vague and unhelpful for people who are trying to work out what's best re getting to work.

Government could say they'll be bringing public transport up to previous levels in an effort to reduce crowding or laying on extra or, for communities where, for example, there's local factories and manufacturers, supporting businesses with some tax breaks or whatever if they lay on transport for workers to supplement. Or guaranteeing that parking restrictions will be lifted. ie, there are things they can do that have both a practical and emotional impact on individuals considering returning to work.

Or, instead of telling people they should go back to work if they can, government could specifically make announcements aimed at businesses, "we want you to reopen when you can. Obviously, social distancing needs to be enforced and we'd encourage you to do x, y, z to support your workers, suppliers and customers." Provide guidelines for how to get workers back that are visible to the workers.

Yes, to a certain extent, this is a PR exercise, but that's not to say it isn't useful.

Also, I think that people, understandably, feel that government is passing the responsibility to them and not providing assistance. And that's the problem.

MrsFezziwig · 11/05/2020 11:35

@EffOrf
I'm hoping it includes the mobile caravan service man that had to cancel our caravan service when lockdown started, will ring him when the clarification document is published

Why did he cancel? My neighbours have had their caravan service man in twice. He obviously works alone though, own van, caravan on drive so no social distancing issues.

AravisTarkheena · 11/05/2020 11:35

I have the windows open a lot on my house, we could sit in my breezy living room with masks on. I don’t actually intend to do this - but I also don’t see how people can be at the point where they’re getting cleaners back in. Kids are not at school, people will still be working from home, it wouldn’t be easy for a cleaner to avoid coming into contact with anyone.

BlingLoving · 11/05/2020 11:36

Gov.uk was where the facts were and where I directed people if they had queries.

But even then people didn't read this correctly. eg the outrage over that government minister who shopped for his parents and dropped it at their door step. He did not go in. The gov.uk guidelines specifically say that's okay but everyone was outraged. And I saw one guy pointing to the overview/summary of guidelines as "proof" he was right to be outraged.

DailyKegelReminder · 11/05/2020 11:40

DP is back to work end of this week (Plasterer) Customers were hesitant about having him in their home but were slowly coming round to the idea even before boris made his speech last night. That seemed to be the final push needed and his work phone has been very busy.

MrsFezziwig · 11/05/2020 11:43

If you can have a cleaner in I really don’t see why I can’t have a friend over and just sit on opposite sofas.

The aim is to start getting the economy back on its feet while minimising the number of people out and about. Because the cleaner is part of the economy (however small) and you having a chat with your mate is not when there are perfectly viable alternatives. I’m not directly contributing to the economy (except by spending money online!) so I’m happy to stop at home for now to help minimise the number of people who need to be out. If you can’t see the difference I despair - it’s not a tit for tat situation.

EffOrf · 11/05/2020 11:43

MrsFezziwig. DH took the call but he just said he couldn’t do it because of lockdown and had to cancel all his work. There are always 2 men that come though an older one about 50 or 60 and a much younger man, maybe they aren’t related to each other. It is a small business we use and our caravan is on the drive.

NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite · 11/05/2020 11:44

@malificent7

"I thought the givernment is very clear that only essential businesses stay open...hence why so many shut. Furniture stores etc = not essential."
No. That is not what the Govt said at all. They were very clear in stating which businesses should not stay open (cafes restaurants, pubs, cinemas, hairdressers etc).

Beyond that they said to work from home if you can, but if you can't , that you should continue to go to work.

MrsFezziwig · 11/05/2020 11:50

My garage booked me an appointment a week ago to bring my car in for servicing this week. Presumably they must have had some inkling that the situation was going to change. I asked them about the procedures they are putting in place safety wise and as far as I can tell these seem to be adequate, so I will be taking my car in.

AravisTarkheena · 11/05/2020 11:51

@MrsFezziwig I’ve said I’m NOT going to have a friend over, but in terms of the spread of a disease I’m struggling to see the distinction, and this is one of the examples of confused messaging.

Namechangervaver · 11/05/2020 11:54

Thanks for that link @Stuckforthefourthtime, it's really good!

MrsFezziwig · 11/05/2020 12:17

but in terms of the spread of a disease I’m struggling to see the distinction

The distinction is one of numbers - the fewer people out & about, the less chance of the virus being spread, so in order to let people go to work (if it is safe to do so) to get the economy going, the rest of us can do our bit and minimise social contact. Don’t know why that is a hard concept to grasp.

Peggysgettingcrazy · 11/05/2020 12:31

One shudders to think how much higher the death rate may have been had a lot of these companies stayed opened (& what may happen if they all rush back now).

Not really. Lots of these companies could have continues to operate socially distanced.

I had to fight to get my team wfh. Then came notice if the lockdown and the whole company did. By that point piers morgan had got involved and employees teenage children were tweeting about how awful we were as weren't 'essential.

The company could have handled it better, but the rule was never essential business only. They closed due to bad PR. Opened again 3 weeks later and a pile of H&S training.

Had people not decided that the rule was essential businesses only, we wouldn't have closed and had no need to close.

ElsasSalamander · 11/05/2020 12:43

My company closed because our overseas suppliers were already closed, and our customers were forced to close, meaning the supply chain effectively came to a standstill. Plus we needed time to put the necessary H&S / social distancing measures in place. Staff were furloughed as a result.

Now we are in a position to reopen, although business is likely to remain difficult for many months to come with the high likelihood of job losses.

shinynewapple2020 · 11/05/2020 12:52

I think there was a lot of confusion as to whether businesses that could not be described as 'essential' should carry on working. A lot of people (most people?) thought that they shouldn't. The government now seems to be hinting that they should have carried on working anyway.

Fifthtimelucky · 11/05/2020 14:02

I agree with some others that a lot of businesses closed that didn't need to. We had our car serviced during lockdown. We've also had our windows cleaned.

No reason why many businesses cannot operate safely and they should be getting back to normal as soon as possible. Where that is not possible, obviously people should remain at home.

Kazzyhoward · 11/05/2020 14:25

If you can have a cleaner in I really don’t see why I can’t have a friend over and just sit on opposite sofas.

Presumably you're going to force your friend to wash and anti-bac their hands before they come in, limit what they're going to touch, thoroughly clean everything they touched whilst in your home, i.e. door handles, tables, chairs, tea cup, toilet, sink, towels, etc etc?

Kazzyhoward · 11/05/2020 14:29

I really don’t think the “you didn’t need to close in the first place” line is accurate, the government had 6 weeks to clear up the essential work/only if you can’t work from home confusion and chose not to.

The damage had already been done via dodgy media reporting. Firms had already closed because of what they'd seen/heard in the media. The Government wouldn't have got all those firms open again the next day just by pointing out the real rules/laws as per their website!

It's what the media have done throughout this pandemic. Rather than actually waiting for official announcements and updates to the Government's official website, they've basically made it up themselves based on what they think is about to happen.

I really hope the media are subject to an official enquiry after all this has settled down as they've done a lot of damage.

PuppyMonkey · 11/05/2020 14:35

I know of three businesses that announced last week that they intended to reopen properly today. They’d made the decision regardless of what the PM was going to say last night.

These are all mainly companies like glass/glazing firms.