Question about the blue lips thing

[tilder]

Where did this come from? Just curious really. I've not seen it written down anywhere or heard it given as advice.

Only place I have heard it is on MN. Am asking because I mentioned it on a zoom chat with friends, several of whom are medics. It raised eyebrows to say the least.

One even said the Italians sent people home if their o2 levels were 92% or above, commenting that she would be concerned at that level (No reference for that anecdote, sorry).

So my question is:

(a) is the blue lips thing something you heard from a friend/read on MN/read on SM; or
(b) is it something you were told by a medical professional.

Totally unscientific poll!

mumsnet decided that you should not seek medical help unless you had blue lips because there wouldn’t be any point - ‘they’ (the NHS?) would rather leave you at home to die. This is rubbish and dangerous and as far as I can tell originated from one poster then took on a life of its own

I heard this separately from MN - someone I know via Twitter who has been ill for weeks with covid and couldn't get into hospital and every time she starts to get better she gets a different sort of symptom. She's German so understandably was somewhat annoyed that she would have had much quicker and more efficient treatment at home.

And she's not in London, she's in Sussex (not sure whether East or West).

Paramedics do carry oximeters and use them. The blue lips thing is what they use to triage people over the phone, and one of the danger signs people are told to look out for at home ie blue lips, call 999.

"blue lips"

The important issue is that the NEWS2 score for COVID hospital admission- in London at least - was 7 until Easter,
whereas normally admission would be score 5 for respiratory problems

It wasn't patients choosing not to go to hospital:

They were being refused admittance, whether by 111 or by the ambulance staff
.... until at Easter the NEWS2 threshold was lowered to 3-5, because it had been found elsewhere that early treatment with O2 is critical

Sometimes we have to admit that the NHS in some areas made a bad decision, then corrected it.
The NHS staff are great; the policies sometimes not up to this standard.

Would suggest everyone invest in basic bits of kit. Blood pressure monitor, thermometer and oximeter. They aren't expensive and so useful.

Possible to have low sats reading 92-93% and still not be admitted on basis of NEWS2 score - hopefully this is taken account of by paramedics. Also should be checking oxygen after exertion - the 40 steps test. The revised NEWS criteria don't really explain where the blue lips trufact came from. Plus it was revised a month ago. Yet it has been rolled out again and again on Mumsnet.

The Roth test was quickly discredited - counting up to 8-10 in one breath was supposedly reassuring. I had zero faith in it. Subjective breathlessness requires face to face assessment. And even then it is not straightforward to predict deterioration.

Mumsnet was not 'advising' people they should not go to hospital unless their lips were blue - this would imply a degree of responsibility which it is easy to shirk from behind a screen. It was repeatedly stated by certain posters that this was policy. If it discouraged anyone from seeking help the statements were frankly dangerous.

Furthermore the poor outcomes in the UK have been in part attributed to this policy. Very few people died at home so where is the evidence for this (again repeatedly made) statement.

Every incidence where the NEWS2 policy or poor inital assessment led to loss of life should be fully investigated. But spreading these rumours about blanket UK policy on Covid admissions is insulting to those of us working at personal risk in an evolving situation. It has certainly not been in action at any point in this part of the UK.