Self-Employed HMRC update

[Snorkelface]

HMRC has added a few updates for the self employed grant scheme.

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

While HMRC will be contacting eligible claimants directly over the next couple of weeks with more specific details you can now see if you're eligible to claim and what date you'll be able to lodge your claim by using their on-line tool (about half way down their web page).

You'll need your UTR and NI number to do this and it will also give you the opportunity to set up your Gateway account if you don't already have one and to update your contact details. It's a good idea to set this up now as the website is likely to get very busy when it goes live on 13th May.

You can find both your UTR and NI number on your tax return. If you're setting up your Gateway at the same time you'll need to provide email/mobile details and you'll need to set up additional security measures to identify you using either security questions or drivers license details or your passport. The system can time out so it's a good idea to have all the details to hand.

What am I missing about the SE grant? The first one was given in May and I thought it was to cover March-May. The second one was given in August and I thought it was to cover June-August. The next one will come in November and be for November-January. What happened to September and October? Or were the self-employed not supported in March and April like employed people were? At the very least one month seems to be missing somewhere.

Self employed scheme payment 3 announced today as 40% not 20% which is something. No date for claiming as yet.

So it should be, 20% was a joke.

There is now a date to apply for the third grant - 14th December.

There's a few details available at HMRC but they haven't launched the main page yet.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-employment-income-support-scheme-grant-extension/self-employment-income-support-scheme-grant-extension

After tonight's announcements and furlough being extended temporarily fingers crossed they apply the same increased support to the self-employed and up the third grant again. But of course they may not. As Disconnect pointed above out the dates of the grants also don't add up. Basically there's still two months of self-employed support missing so far, September and October.

There are no firm details as yet for what the fourth grant next year will be or whether the qualifying criteria will remain the same.

Also if you are planning on taking the Bounce Back Loan and haven't applied yet don't delay, the scheme ends at the end of November, there's lots of delays and some banks are already restricting access for non-business customers. If you need it apply now.

So Michael Gove touched on the subject of the self-employed when discussing Lockdown 2 yesterday and the press have picked up on it and are suggesting further announcements from Rishi Sunak this week regarding increased support. In theory the self-employed who qualified for SEISS are already missing two months worth of support (Sept/Oct) and would be receiving a 40% grant versus a furloughed 80% going in to this month's lockdown so that's a lot to work with. And maybe, just maybe, there's something coming for those who haven't qualified at all. Imagine. Fingers crossed for everyone, I've just had my first full like-it-used-to-be month of work since March cancelled, hey ho.

So Boris has now announced 80% will be payable to the self-employed for November - no mention of September/October, the missing two months.

Thanks for this information @Snorkelface.

So Rishi Sunak now says the next grant will be available at the end of November instead of 14th December.

It will be for November/December/January (so September and October have been left out) and will be for 55% - this is a rounded up average of 1 x month at 80% and 2 x month at 40%.

Still nothing for those left behind.

Has anyone seen any info on whether you can apply for the 3rd one if you got the 1st but weren’t eligible for the second?

DP isn’t allowed to work during lockdown so claimed the first one but then went back to work and so wasn’t eligible for the second but now he can’t work again so wondering if he will be able to claim for November

I would expect so @Turnedouttoes as they did say you could claim even if you didn't claim the first two.

Great thanks @bookgirl1982

@Turnedoutoes - here's the latest update, there'll be more details to come no doubt. It mentions that the previous two grants didn't have to be claimed in order to qualify for this one.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-increases-support-for-self-employed-across-the-uk

Thoughts on the definition of ‘reduced demand’ - compared to pre covid? This time last year? Or where I’d expect demand to be now?

I’m going to have to cancel planned face to face input due to this lockdown - is that reduced demand? I can do some things by phone - others will have to wait until after lockdown - I can’t decide if it’s too grey to risk a claim this time.

Thanks @Snorkelface

I notice it says you need to have been eligible for the first and second grants though even if you didn’t claim them. He wasn’t eligible for the second as he was back at work as soon as it was allowed and demand was higher than ever so no impact after the initial 2 months of strict lockdown

Well presumably those you were going to be face to face with would be cancelling you as well, in order to comply with lockdown themselves. That'd be reduced demand. I wouldn't overthink it. And of course we don't actually really know when 'after lockdown' will be......

@Turnedouttoes - I saw that and it's a bit confusing isn't it. Being eligible would mean qualifying in terms of tax returns/years/% of income and still trading etc, first and foremost, which he obviously does qualify for. I don't think they mean that if you didn't qualify for the second grant because you had plenty of work on that you can't claim this one and we weren't in lockdown for the second one. I'm sure there'll be further clarification over that wording so don't presume he can't claim.

@Snorkelface yes I hadn’t thought of it that way. I will have to cancel 3 things this week, but equally they would also have to cancel me so it is reduced in that sense. I’m pretty sure things will pick up again later, but you are right who knows when lockdown will actually end!

I think I’ll claim it on that basis, this is only week 1 after all, there’s likely to be a further impact into December.

I'd do the same @Dontrainonmyparade if in your position - they changed the eligibility wording on the third grant when it was first mentioned which was before the latest lockdown was announced, so I think it was aimed at a slightly different landscape than the one we're now facing. Hopefully they'll put up some examples when they put up the proper web page like last time to make it clearer for everyone.

Yes I wasn’t going to claim because I had been mostly getting back to normal - but lockdown puts another spin on it really.

The claims portal for the third SEISS grant will now be open on 30th November. The grant will be for 55% of trading profits and covers November, December and January.

It's good news that the grant has been increased and the date moved forwards. However, to be in line with the support offered to those in employment the grant should have been at 70% for the earlier months of September, October, November.

That's a big difference.

Along with the 3m self-employed who have received nothing at all this widens the gap between the self-employed and employed further.

There is a lot of shouting on social media about both the missing two months of support (September and October) and the fact that the grant will be stuck at 55% to the end of January even if lockdown goes on for longer than a month and furlough is extended. Public pressure has so far resulted in improved support for the self-employed so add your voice where you can. While the government might stick to their guns there is time to change the grant again.

The deadline for Bounce Back Loan applications has also been extended to the end of January with a single top up now allowed for anyone who took less than 25% of turnover when they first applied. If you think you might want the loan check the situation with your bank and do it now, especially if you don't operate from a business bank account. Each bank has their own rules about applying for the loan and it's getting harder to access this scheme.

Glad I found this thread again

www.gov.uk/government/publications/self-employment-income-support-scheme-grant-extension/self-employment-income-support-scheme-grant-extension?fbclid=IwAR2k7KXwDTivPUg4YXmAzTgxY_Yk2i0r_vrWqJHho9YtxVg01tsGHrREk18

It's a confusing mix of 80% for November and then back to the 40% for December and January, 55% overall!

And I'm glad it has been highlighted that we missed those 2 months. I have friends who have made some amazing mental arithmatic to prove we didn't!! Not freinds any more, obviously!

Thanks for confirming my calculations that SE people were missing 2 months of support compared to employed people. I haven't been following this on social media, but it never seems to be mentioned in the news.
I suppose there is argument that March wasn't included since we went into lockdown on 23rd, but that still leaves one full month without any support. And either way, it should be the same support for self-employment as for employment.

Hey @Disconnect - you're right about the news, there's plenty of shouting on social media about it and Martin Lewis has also been highlighting it but the news has all but ignored it.

The March element would be to bring it in line with furlough which was backdated to 1st March. In the government's own words there should be parity between the schemes and clearly there isn't. As the months have been flipped for this grant we'll now be claiming in November in advance for December and January without necessarily knowing if we'll have reduced demand and without knowing if furlough will continue or at what rate or if there'll be any parity at all.

Someone has just told me Rishi announced it will be 80% again for Claim 3?? Excellent news if this is true

@Snorkelface - thanks for explaining why the first grant did include all of the March.

So my first post was correct: March-May, June-August, November-January and nothing for September and October.
When I wrote that post I was expecting to be told why I was wrong, but no-one did and now we know that self-employed people have been left out of 2 months of support that has been given to employed people. I will look at what Martin Lewis has been saying - hopefully someone will listen to him!