WHO declares Sweden's covid response a model for the world

[Lunar567]

www.intellectualtakeout.org/who-declares-swedens-covid-response-a-model-for-the-world/
WHO scared everyone into lockdown and now praise Sweden!

Wiith the way China went on we didn't actually know about the epidemic until we were bang in the middle of it!

Here's the timeline:

www.who.int/news-room/detail/27-04-2020-who-timeline---covid-19

WHO were putting out loads of technical guidance by January 10th. They declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on January 30 when there were just 82 cases outside of China.

We had plenty of time to prepare, we just fucked it up.

Yes I agree TheCountess. It's ludicrous how they have treated the whole country exactly the same. It looks like they're going to treat everywhere the same on the way out of lockdown too.

Wiith the way China went on we didn't actually know about the epidemic until we were bang in the middle of it!

Where have you been living? China alerted the WHO that there is a new virus at the end of December 2019. It has taken the unprecedented action of severely locking down an area with the population of the UK on 23 January! Clearly anyone who didn't have they fingers into their ears and their head in the sand must have known that that something sinister was afoot. The lockdown was far more severe than even the WHO was recommending. They may have just left it at some half-hearted tracing and isolating like the US did in the early days of the swine flu (which at that point looked very similar)! Have a look at the swine flu. By the time that the US has had admitted how bad it was it was already half-way around the world. Pure luck that it turned out to be not so bad after all.

No, by their timely and clear action the Chinese bought the West two months of time to get prepared. Time that the West has .. wait.. wasted!

(!Gross generalisation alert!)

In terms of personal space, Sweden is to the UK as the UK is to Italy.

blogs.studyinsweden.se/2016/01/15/public-transport-sweden-bus-seating/

People in Sweden socially distance as a matter of personal comfort. They also tend to follow guidance from government without second guessing / deciding it doesn't apply to them / constantly looking for loopholes.

We could no more be Sweden than we could stop queuing in an orderly fashion.

TBF China did dick about a bit in December but they got their arse in gear a lot quicker than they did during the SARS outbreak.

Iceland has a population similar to that of Leicester, spread out over a country the size of England. Not really a useful model for, well, anywhere.

I don't understand this. Genuinely. Greater Reykjavik has about 300k people in it I think. I fully appreciate it's not at all similar to somewhere like NY or London but it's still a sizeable number of people living in one area. I mean, Lombardy isn't London either but we still tried to learn something from their mistakes. They didn't escape the virus having an impact simply because their region isn't one of the biggest cities. So I don't understand why these smaller success stories are dismissed. A highly contagious virus which kills vulnerable people is still a highly contagious virus in a very small city. Iceland have had a very low number of deaths and they didn't lockdown strictly. Their handling of the virus still surely has something to teach others in some form.

Agree with Countess and Lang . This country is too centralised and London-centric. They could have locked down London and Birmingham, banned large events and non essential travel (to stop flight to Cornwall /Peak district etc) and been a lot lighter touch elsewhere.

I don't understand this. Genuinely. Greater Reykjavik has about 300k people in it I think

That's closer to the population of the entire country. Granted over 50% of them do live in and around Reykjavik but that still makes it about the size of Southampton and any number of minor cities in Europe. The rest of the population is mostly spread across tiny villages.

Lombardy isn't London either but we still tried to learn something from their mistakes. They didn't escape the virus having an impact simply because their region isn't one of the biggest cities

Lombardy is very densely populated, highly polluted and home to one of Europe's major cities, Milan.

So I don't understand why these smaller success stories are dismissed

They're not dismissed at all. Good for Iceland. But it's like all those stories praising New Zealand for their approach - yes they did do very good work but it's doubtful how it can be applied to a major European country. Same with Iceland. Its demographics are totally different from Britain or most other European countries, so what works there really isn't a model for most other places.

There is talk of coming out of this locking down some areas of the UK if they get worse again.

Sweden's death toll would be lower had they shielded their elderly better. Comparisons are often made between Sweden's death rate, and Norway who had a tougher lockdown but this is unfair as nursing homes in Norway tend to be smaller with fewer residents, whereas Swedish care homes are much bigger so if one resident becomes infected the impact is worse.
Also, we wont know the true impact until a year from now. Swedish death toll seems high now because all those that would have died from Covid-19 (the elderly and infirm) have died early on. Sweden are forecast to achieve herd immunity by end of May, which means they can hopefully (nothing is certain with this disease) prevent a 2nd and 3rd wave, and have protected their economy from total collapse.

I can't believe a word WHO says since they become China's puppet.

The WHO are deranged.

Trump is just trying to demonise the WHO so voters don't notice all these months of his own incompetence, irresponsibility - and insanity

"Deranged" is dismantling the White House Office for Pandemic Management - just because a black president created it

"Deranged" is suggesting bleach as a cure

"Deranged" is encouraging armed protestors to storm state buildings and intimidate elected state legislatures .... who are just following US public health advice

UK ranks as 32 in population density and Sweden 159. You can't compare one country directly with another. Deaths per capita and Belgium is top, and Sweden 8 (as of May 4) and UK 4 (and US 10) so Sweden isn't doing that great, as there are 132 countries with less deaths per capita. But as different countries report deaths differently it is just an guestimate. It will be months before any true stats can be compared and still there are so many factors including density, demographics, lifestyle, geographic, race etc that what worked for one country may not work at all for another.

Sweden's death rate is several times higher than their neighbours who locked down,
even normalised wrt population

Scandinavian countries all have much lower death rates than the rest of Europe,
so Sweden's death rate is acceptable for them

... but the UK having 10 times its current death rate would not be

Boris initially tried the Sweden route by just giving advice, not laws

Difference is:
the Swedish public obeyed the advice of their government; the British people did not

So Boris had to impose lockdown by law

it's just not govt mandated

I have no idea so am asking genuinely, but if it's not government mandated, does that mean the government isn't paying for it?

We could no more be Sweden than we could stop queuing in an orderly fashion.

Interesting choice of example. Because in Sweden whilst you are at the front being served, someone will come in and reach right over the top of you to be served regardless of whether you're finished or not. They will push past you if you are in their way, never waiting. I had my space invaded way more in Malmo than I do in Edinburgh. Far more tactile than the brits too, more likely to greet friends with a handshake or a hug.

And the bus thing only works because they have a better availability of public transport.

The fact is, no one knows who is doing it right.

It could transpire, that when you add in the deaths from people not receiving medical treatment in time and the estimated deaths a bad economy causes, Sweden could end up with overall less deaths. If their economy recovers quickly.

Countrities that seem to have it under control now, may not do in a few months.

Everyone is dealing with or differently because of culture, populations numbers, death rates, infect rates etc.

People in Sweden socially distance as a matter of personal comfort.
I'm not sure what that means. There's a lot more handshaking and hugging going on in Sweden than here.
They also tend to follow guidance from government without second guessing / deciding it doesn't apply to them / constantly looking for loopholes. Yes

BigChocFrenzy

One derangement doesn't exclude the other.

Tonight's episode of Dr WHO: The Three Doctors -

Opening remarks on the EC world pledging event followed by questions:

1. Question about the sale of over the counter testing kits in Latin America - are they accurate? are they a good idea generally? risks?

2. How does WHO define mass gatherings? A: They don't have a set definition, events should be risk assessed case by case, here are some of the things you need to think about, full guidance on website.

3. Question about contact tracing, human tracers vs. apps. A: Primarily human. Good clear explanation of contact tracing. Even Singapore and S Korea did most tracing by humans. 'boot leather epidemiology'. Contact tracing needs a human face because this is all horrible. Apps can be helpful but are not a replacement for human tracers. Data protection and human rights extremely important.

4. Question about covid affecting poorer people more. A: higher underlying conditions and not possible to socially distance. Access to testing must not depend on income, might need to prioritise tests among disadvantaged, importance of caring for all cases and effective isolation at home or where possible in a community medical setting. If chains of infection are broken it doesn't have to take off, even in dense urban areas. No-one is safe until we're all safe.

5. Obligatory bullshit question about Taiwan. Clear, comprehensive response. Again.

6. Question about equitable access to therapeutics in relation to Gilead and Remdesivir. Remdesivir is one of the drugs in the solidarity trial and looks promising. Gilead have provided lots of remdesivir.

(info on solidary trial: www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/global-research-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/solidarity-clinical-trial-for-covid-19-treatments )

7. Question about the origins of the virus, asked in relation to Trumps virus lab claim. A: Originated in bats but need to find intermediate species, very important to find this to prevent further zoonotic infections. Haven't seen Trump's virus lab evidence & request that he sends it. Can't operate in an information vacuum. Very keen to work with China to identify origins. Important to not politicise - need to work together to find origin in spirit of scientific collaboration. Approaching this as an aggressive inquiry would not be useful.

8. Question about traditional medicines. WHO supports as useful drugs are often found in traditional medicine but should be tested for safety and efficacy.

If you've never watched Dr WHO: The Three Doctors give it a go. You might be surprised. It doesn't drive me to drink, swearing and throwing things like our own government press conferences do.