This contact tracing app doesn’t make sense?

[Lemonpancakesultana]

If you have symptoms you tell the app so it then can contact people you are in close proximity with.

If you have symptoms you should be self isolating anyway so why would you be out and and about in contact with other people?

So what’s the point?

I'd recommend the BBC's coronavirus podcast, as it explains the basics such as TTT - track, trace and test.

Would love to know how it’s going to work in a school. Does that mean every student who was in the dining hall that day needs to go in to isolation?

In school, the app would only tell people what they know already, as the school will have been informed about any cases of Covid and pass the news onto parents. Same in the workplace.

This app is for the cases where people are not otherwise going to get any warning.

The idea of the app is that it finds everyone you have been in contact with (even people you don't know - passed on the street, in public transport, in the supermarket) and lets them know immediately. It will also track everyone in the 48h infectious period before symptoms.

The "infectious" status would have to be told officially (i.e. by the NHS after a positive test).

One advantage apparently is that it would tell people immediately (before you get a chance to infect anyone yourself).

And yes, everyone in that workplace, school cantine, tube carriage would have to self-isolate. That's why it will only work once numbers of actual active carriers are right down (At the moment there are about 60,000 active carries in the UK - only 0.1% of population, but still too many).

The mathematics are that it will reduce R. It will only find symptomatic people and only those that use the app. So, if 50% of carriers are symptomatic and say 50% of people use the app, then it will reduce R by 0.5x0.5 = 25%. One piece in the puzzle to get R below 1, not more not less.

yes, everyone in that workplace, school cantine, tube carriage would have to self-isolate.
Without being tested? I doubt that's the plan, even in the UK.

There is no way it is going to work. People aren't going to isolate voluntarily and, for fear of tracking if not isolating, aren't going to want to download it.

You could have to isolate many times just by close encounters in Sainsbury's, on the tube etc.

I wondered the same as applesandpears,about how it could be effective for people who can't have their phones on them at work.
I can't (HCP), and neither can DH(food production factory).

And yes, everyone in that workplace, school cantine, tube carriage would have to self-isolate. That's why it will only work once numbers of actual active carriers are right down (At the moment there are about 60,000 active carries in the UK - only 0.1% of population, but still too many)

Again how many work places would accept people calling In sick for 2 whole weeks cos a complete stranger you may not even have been in close contact with given it works on blue tooth had symptoms consistent with a million other more harmless illnesses like a cold or hayfever.

Hard enough getting time off when you are actually sick

There is no way it is going to work. People aren't going to isolate voluntarily and, for fear of tracking if not isolating, aren't going to want to download it.

Exactly. Far too many people simply won't comply. Some people have admitted they had symptoms but still went to Cheltenham Races and that Liverpool football match. Some people, even now, aren't social distancing when out and about in shops etc.

The "compliant" people will download it and comply, but the arrogant know it alls, "couldn't care less because I'm not at risk" group will just carry on, spreading the virus as they go.

The "compliant" people will download it and comply, but the arrogant know it alls, "couldn't care less because I'm not at risk" group will just carry on, spreading the virus as they go

That's unfair people genuinely dont want their blue tooth on all the time as it's a security risk . Not necessarily anything to do with whether or not they care.

I think it’s only going to contact those you had sustained (15 minutes) contact with, not everyone you passed briefly on the street.

I’ve looked into who made this app and I shan’t be downloading.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/vote-leave-ai-firm-wins-seven-government-contracts-in-18-months?__twitter_impression=true

mobile.twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1254887428260868096

I wondered the same as applesandpears,about how it could be effective for people who can't have their phones on them at work.
If someone at your work falls ill, you'll be told anyway, without the app - they will tell their boss, and their boss will tell you. That's not what the app is for: it's for finding out whether you were sitting next to someone in a restaurant or on a train who had it.

Again how many work places would accept people calling In sick for 2 whole weeks
The idea is for it to be used in conjunction with testing. Your workplace will accept a positive test for Covid, taken as a result of the app warning.

It can take a while for the antibodies to show up though cant it?

So you isolate until you can get a test and get the results back (which cant be justified at work really cos u cant prove you had the alert and your not actually sick) only to get a false negative anyway ?

Here in Germany you can get test results back within 2 days, and you can get 3 days off work based on your doctor's advice. The idea is that there won't be so many infections that you'll need frequent testing.
How it would work in the UK is another question.

If it takes 2 days best case to get results back then people in touch with someone 2 days before symptoms presumably could be contacted via the app just before their symptoms would start to stop the chain?

@PaquitaVariation is right, it will only consider it a contact if your phones spent 15 minutes close to one another. The risk from someone you pass outside is minimal.
It then tells all your contacts in the intervening time.
Everyone isolates until they can do a test, which with increased testing capacity and fewer cases shouldn’t be too long.

Are there any issues with regard to liability for this app? Can there be any comeback for people who have, through one way or another, been a vector for many people? Just thinking through possible problems down the road.

The one here is meant to be fully anonymised. Like the response on this thread, though, many people in Germany are sceptical.

ravenmum, I was thinking about visitors to the workplace, from the general public, rather than own colleagues.

I think the alert goes out on symptoms detected, and it cleared if a negative test follows, so erring on side of caution

The biggest issue is will people be guaranteed full pay if they have received an alert?

florriepeck Visitors' book, perhaps, so they can be informed - assuming you don't mean somewhere with a constant flow of people

I'm concerned there might be times when it is clear who the common link is so the anonymity isn't there. Eg a teacher of a class.

At the beginning of Covid, there was already tracking and tracing going on without the app. There were several cases where one person infected dozens of others by taking part in events. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/the-cluster-effect-how-social-gatherings-were-rocket-fuel-for-coronavirus
They were all identified, without the app. Cobtact tracing will tkae place with or without an app, as it's an effective way of treating people at an early stage and reducing the numbers infected.