Agency Nurses being furloughed...**Title edited by MNHQ**

[Idolikeanicepieceofcake]

My OH and I work in healthcare. He is a critical care nurse (working on bank and agency as we need one of us to have flexible working) and yet he was told last week that he is being furloughed as there is no work. My job is continuing as normal, and technically he doesn't need to work as I earn enough to support the family, but doesn't it seem crazy that the hospitals don't need extra staff at all? I have noticed that there are oodles of staff working in ITU at the moment, who have presumably been 'up-skilled' from other departments, but I am still surprised they don't need highly-trained and experienced nurses to be supporting them/looking after the most unwell patients. My OH has volunteered to go and work away in other hospitals, but so far they all have enough staff. On one hand I am proud that the NHS is managing this pandemic so well that they don't need to get extra staff in, but on the other I'm wondering whether we massively overestimated how awful COVID-19 was going to be on the health service. Have any other nurses been furloughed?

I thought Bank work was usually on an as needed basis through the Bank rather than regular employment - so is he actually furloughed or just not needed at the mo

Think through this whole pandemic it's taking each day and week as it comes

Covid impacted admissions
Government policy to Covid also impacted admissions. People aren't being admitted with COVID until it has reached a serious stage. Plus every other department has had appointments, treatments, operations, admissions cancelled. There are empty wards because policies emptied them. For example, cancer patients who would have had appointments and admissions have had them cancelled. Non-emergency orthopedics' assessments and admissions have been cancelled, etc, etc.
Baked people have been posting why it doesn't stack up. Posters are also aware there is an ongoing investigation into a paid-for campaign by the Conservatives. It's based around social media posts pushing a narrative that hospitals are empty and everyone should call for lockdown to be lifted. Hence why people are cynical when someone confuses bank and agency, throws in furloughing and doesn't understand basic information about current hospital admissions' procedure.

Most treatments where I work have gone ahead as normal.

Clinics and electives were cancelled for capacity purposes but also to avoid infection of vulnerable groups,

Absolutely @escapetimeplease
All cancer and cardiac services continued.

@TheMagiciansMewTwo

I have read the thread, you seem determined to drive a point forward that the OP was bashing/not understanding/lying or some other reason.

I don't work in the NHS, my daughter is a nurse, many treatments were postponed until the Covid-19 passes as someone has pointed out. The lockdown was to free up capacity in the NHS and other treatments are open and the NHS have before clear in messages, that people do seek medical care when they need it.

There was a pile on because someone wrote something that didn't sit right. It is a common theme on here, I'll always call it when I see it

She may well, have been wrong about some of her comments, but many were wrong on here about furlough and agency staff. The original thread title was amended and she explained herself as the thread went on.

There are many people who are losing income and that's a worrying time. We dont always make sense.

@kingofkings

The NHS not requiring bank staff is entirely separate from furlough.

The agency hasn't enough work for the payroll. They furlough their staff and apply for government support.

I should clarify that my OH is registered on the bank at the Trust where I work, but usually works at a neighbouring Trust with a nursing agency. I promise that I know the difference between the two.
I don't think that lockdown should be lifted early, and never expressed this view.
I also understand the change in admissions - it is why I have been redeployed to a different area of the hospital. Yes the wards are not as busy as usual, but my OH doesn't work on the wards, he works in ITU and he has no work available. I have suggested that he volunteers for the Nightingale hospitals.

No agency nhs workers arent paid more than nhs workers I.e nhs professionals is an nhs bank. If u are itu or a and e trained the wages are really high on agency like 30 pound per hour maybe 40.

Ah, that makes sense, OP. But it is the agency that is furloughing him, not the trust where he is bank?

I’ve come out of retirement, reregistered on The NMC and joined NHS Professionals to work in a Nightingale Hospital.

I suggest your dh does similar. There will be work for him.

My DF joined nhs professionals, not worked in nhs for 15 years but was practising as a nurse. She has worked whenever she chooses.

She’s mainly been in A and E. was previously an A and E nurse, she does say it’s a bit quieter but plenty to do.

They also implied staff aren't needed because they 'overestimated' how awful COVID would be.

Well, it’s kind of true.

We looked to other nations who were having to pick and choose who to save because of a lack of healthcare provision. We ramped up provision, created more capacity to ensure we could cope.

We went in to lockdown which has been widely adhered to so the system hasn’t been overwhelmed as we’d feared that it would be and those who need care get it. We still have spare capacity in the system, should the numbers get higher.

There was an overestimate. And rightly so. Otherwise we’d have been at the same place as Italy was a month ago. Our deaths may be higher than theirs, but our decisions about ventilations have been based on clinical need, not prioritising the young and fit over the vulnerable.

It would be brilliant if your OH volunteered to work in the nightingale OP. Struggling London hospitals have seen very ill patients turned away from there due to lack of staff. Some subsequently died. I suspect it's similar in the West Midlands.

We didn't overestimate. Our death rate is pretty much guaranteed to be higher than Italy. I agree we're not in a better place than them. We're in a worse place. I really think people should see how other countries are viewing the UK. It's with horror and shock.

We weren't overwhelmed and have capacity because we're not treating people. Younger patients as well as older. That's why so many are dying at home. Others are dying in hospital because they're only admitted at a stage when there's less chance of survival. Early treatment (as with anything) is key.

Premature end to lockdown and we'll see an immediate massive increase in cases (with many more deaths). Nobody will get treatment for anything because hospitals will be overrun (and infected therefore dangerous for non Covid patients) and there won't be any HCP to care for people. They'll all be off sick or dying.

One week ago we already had more than one hundred dead HCP. I hate to think how many more would die if we had a second wave.

They didn't overestimate it Minty.
They had a choice between treating and admitting people and trying to keep other NHS services running - which would have overwhelmed the NHS.
Or adopting a policy that left people with symptoms at home rather than testing and admitting them; cancelling all other appointments; deprioritisting the elderly, people in care homes and people with critical care pathways.
They opted for the latter. Of course that meant the NHS wasn't as overwhelmed but it also meant the death toll is high and there has been a massive knock-on effect on care for patients with other illnesses, conditions and emergencies.

If hundreds of people are dying every day, I don't understand how the covid wards can be half full 🤔

I’ve got to say as a nurse in Wales the way the nhs has coped has been amazing loads of PPE, loads of staff and loads of empty beds. When I see the news it’s not relating to what I’m seeing in my practice. Only downside is that I’m broke as struggling for shifts but that’s good news . I just hope people to access the services when they need them and don’t put their health at risk by staying away !

I hope there will be an enquiry on NHS 111 when this pandemic is over. They need to be held accountable somewhat, with some of the appalling advice and refusal to send ambulances out when people clearly needed it. I don't know how prevalent this advice was during the beginning of the pandemic. But a friend of ours passed away from covid. The wife had rung 111 when the husband was coughing persistently for 4 days and was getting breathless he was having problems to even talk. The 111 advice was to stay at home and isolate. And that they would only send them an ambulance out if he was still the same 7 days later. Despite the wife crying and hysterical on the phone. He managed 6 days and died at home. He leaves behind a 13 year old and 7 year old. Why oh why have people been denied help.. its upsetting to hear that hostpitals haven't been overwhelmed.. because maybe my friend could have been saved. Maybe If many of the people that died at home and care homes were admitted to hospital sooner, though the hostpitals will probably have been overwhelmed and the nightingale hostpitals would have been used. I'm sure there would have been more life saved rather than dire death rates we have. I look at the Worldometer figures shake my head .. How the hell do we have such high death figures. But also have half empty hostpitals. Something is not right and has gone badly wrong.

Lindtbunny- It has been shocking, the experiences of people on threads on here being told to stay home until they can only string a couple of words together echoes what you are saying. I think there does need to be an inquiry along with inquiries for all those NHS staff that have died with inadequate PPE. I don't understand why people don't call 999 though, at least people would surely be assessed by a paramedic then and stand some chance of being admitted, or did that go against advice ? Sorry for the loss of your friend.
I signed up to the emergency register and heard nothing.

babyroobs We keep mulling what happened to them over and over. Our friend didn't present a fever but a cough. I dont know wether this made any difference to how the 111 caller advised his wife on his case. She said on day 6 since start of cough he seemed to have had a slight recovery as in less coughing but went down hill very quick on his last day which is when they rung 999 and it was too late. We feel extremely bitter towards some of the failings the 111 system put our friend and family through. I can't help but think that if we wasn't in a pandemic and covid wasn't around he would have gotten the right help and not be told to stay at home and wait it out. Theres too much assumption that most people will just have a bad case of flu symptoms and they will be alright, just take fever tablets, cough meds paracetamol and can ride it out. Waiting 2 weeks with symptoms can be too late to save them. Sorry for deviating from the topic of this thread. But reading through it with some of the responses of other posters made me want to comment to what happen to my friend. If anything it highlights 111 needed better trained staff.

@Lindtbunny00 I am sorry for you and your friends loss. This scenario tbh is my biggest worry about the pandemic health wise. I have already had the conversation with my husband that if one of our family cannot breathe we put them in the car and take them to A & E. 111 is failing. How can we have people dying at home and empty hospitals? Why hasn't the press picked up on this?

They may be mothballing the London exel nightingale in a few days' time so may not be the best time to volunteer to work there! I remember recommending on here people applied for the £36k a year new jobs on the call handling there too - that cannot have lasted very long (unless we get a second wave).

Lindtbunny - There seems to be a lot of cases that suddenly take a turn for the worse around day 7. There really needs to be more information about this and people better monitored at around this point even if it's just a phone call from a GP or being advised to check Oxygen saturations. It's just so incredibly sad that people are dying possibly unnecessarily because they are staying home too long. I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend it is heart breaking.