Fat people even more likely to be affected by COVID than previously thought

[pocketem]

UK government scientists are urgently investigating whether people living with obesity may be disproportionately affected by the coronavirus, after emerging data from intensive care units suggested a stronger link than previously thought.

New data from the UK’s Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, which has been presented to ministers and SAGE scientists, has found that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICUs is twice the proportion in the general population.

Ministers have become increasingly alarmed by data coming out of Britain’s intensive care units, with some members of the government suggesting obesity may end up being a factor in the UK’s higher death toll.

The UK is currently projected to have the highest number of coronavirus deaths in Europe. Around 1 in 4 UK adults are obese. In 2018, the WHO found that the UK had the third highest obesity rate in Europe, behind only Malta and Turkey.

More here:
www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-scientists-coronavirus-obesity-link

Also, Covid-19 disproportionately affects men, and men (in Western countries) are more obese than women, although they are not all heaped with the same amount of disgust as overweight/obese women.

"Almost without exception - you never see any of them even remotely seriously overweight. Wrinkly, slow, hunched over (obviously talking very elderly here!) but never overweight.

It’s not a coincidence. Those seriously overweight carked it from heart attacks, diabetes etc years if not decades ago. "

There could be other reasons too. Some people lose their appetite when they get very old or lack of teeth limits what they can eat. Maybe some of the normal consequences of ageing also makes them thinner or maybe they're not able too cook much.
I think it's changed over the years though. When I was a child, someone of 80 and over was usually thin and a person of around 60 was usually fat. Now, there are more 80 year olds who are fat I think and that might ironically be because they're healthier in their 80s now.

Public Health England can do all they want to reduce obesity but it won't do any good at all unless people are prepared to make the effort. They can't wave a magic wand and make people healthy, this can only ever come from the individual.

Yes of course there are single mothers of 6 special needs kids living in a shoe box surviving on pot noodles from the foodbank. But I’d hazard a guess that’s not the situation of most of the obese people on this thread shouting “ fat shaming “ and “ the government should do something “ and “ I can’t lose weight until every fast food place in the Uk is closed “

You are ignoring the voices and lived experience of people on this thread and elsewhere on MN who ARE losing weight and getting healthier. No one said it was easy but it’s possible

This. Funny how people say "it's a disease like alcoholism! They can't help it!" And yet no one goes around feeling sorry for alcoholics do they? No one says "poor alcoholics, they can't HELP being an alcoholic, cut them slack!".

With drug taking, alcoholism, and being obese via bad diet, it's under the control of the person to stop. There's no excuse- if you chose to remain an alcoholic, a druggie, obese - that's you're choice. But don't make excuses. I've been both an alcoholic and hugely overweight, and am working on both, but I cannot understand the apologist behaviour that goes on over these selfish choices people heap upon themselves in the form of food, drugs, alcohol etc.

'It's full of judgmental people who are often not very clever'.

Point proven I suppose.

@viciousjackdaw

People suffering from anorexia are unlikely to climb those mountains if told 'just eat, everyone else manages it, stop making excuses'

Same as depressed people 'just be happy, do some exercise, meditate, it's really simple, stop making excuses'.

They're not told that though usually.

Though obese people are. Just eat less and move more, take responsibilty. It's no-ones fault but yours even though they're not claiming anyone else is 'at fault'.

Which is fine. As long as people accept that obesity isn't usually just about being greedy and lazy. Same as alcoholics with adverse health outcomes don't just 'like a drink' and can't be arsed to stop.

It's not about 'blaming the government' or blaming anything or anybody. That's a weird suggestion made by lots of people on MN that people who smoke, drink too much or are addicts or obese are blaming the government or some individual.

They're not.

It's a health issue with multiple factors that are often related to ethnicity, socio-economic status and adverse childhood experiences.

It's complex. That doesn't translate to 'not taking responsibilty' or 'blaming the Government'.

And anorexics should eat more, and those with psychosis should just ignore the voices and thise with depression should just cheer up right?

Are you suggesting obese people are mentally ill? Seems a bit offensive to me tbh

Yes unfortunately. We've known that for weeks/months.

pocketem

Depends on the individual . Once you get to the stage of 20 stone + you’ve surely got something going on that’s keeping you that size . I know I have weird food behaviours, it’s become plainly obvious when I had four sleepless nights over not being able to get my usual food from Tesco . That’s not normal behaviour at all .

There’s a reason why people overeat, if it were just laziness or greediness we’d all be morbidly obese . And it would be much easier to stop .

The roots can go back years and years - I was 14 stone 7 by age 15 - it’s definitely not as simple as just ‘stopping eating’ ... So it can be mental health issues or from past trauma ... being isolated from society ... etc

Nuggets, potato smilies and cheap convenience foods are full of salt, sugar and artificial additives - addictive substances. It's not so easy to just 'eat less' when the chemical reaction it's having inside you causes your brain to scream 'More! More! More!' Not so much a problem for the wealthy, with their avocados and strawberries, their brie and their couscous

I don't think this only happens with junk food meals... I just ate and lentil, soya mince and veggie Bolognese and I'm trying not to chew my hand off because I want Oreos so much.

They're not told that though usually

Sadly they are. I remember being told the way to stop the depression was 'take a bath and have some me-time', amongst other things. I only began to recover when I actively sought help.

I agree that not all obesity is a case of eating too much and being lazy. Regardless of how you became obese, you need to want to change and you need to actively seek help if you want to lose weight.

Unfortunately the warnings that come on cigarette packaging are not there on junk food packing.
Its big business and advertising and media that normalises junk food.
Can you imagine if there was pictures of peoples clogged hearts and livers on bottles of soda??
Obesity costs the NHS god knows how much each year maybe the government should be looking at that now going forward.

Vitamin D deficiency is also more common in the obese. Might add to it

@Orangeblossom78 That’s interesting - any info on why that might be ?

Someone earlier in the thread suggested that the government needs to put more funding into obesity.
Can someone explain why?

The connection with obesity and serious complications of coronavirus was observed in France a few weeks ago. I would assume it's more noticeable in countries with lower obesity rates.
Can you really expect comfort eaters to give up their crutch with this damned virus going round?
No one's expecting anything, but they have a choice. Either carry on eating the things that make them feel good, or eat in a healthier and more controlled way, thus improving their chances of recovering if they become infected (not to mention, improving their long term health outcome generally)
This virus is going to around for 6 months at the minimum, assuming the Oxford vacccine is viable. That's plenty of time for most people to lose a significant amount of weight in a healthy manner, and become fitter, even if it's just walking or cycling.
I did use to be obese myself, for about ten years. I am poor, that doesn't mean I couldn't take responsibility for what I put in my own mouth no matter which party is in power.

If you read “Why We Get Fat” (Taubes) he explains how the low fat high carb western diet has caused obesity. He even pinpoints the year it all started.

Yet the NHS push the “low fat“ line so my morbidly obese T2 relative is told he can consume diet drinks all day but god forbid he eats an avocado, prawns or butter 🙄

This is the party line so I don’t really blame people.

I'd forgotten about the disparity between male and female deaths as well, thank you to PP who mentioned that one.

As for Public Health England, they've always been one of the better paid bits of the NHS "family" despite many of them not having set food inside a real hospital or frontline service for a VERY long time. Still, policy costs, I suppose.

And no, it isn't only up to Public Health England. It's also up to companies like Coca Cola (or whatever they're called this week), Mondelez, McDonalds and the rest having more responsible advertising, and to fresh food being made more available and more cost-effective even in cities (though the way things are not sure if that will be happening any time soon). More allotments and community gardens.

Much of the current education system is absurd too. Teach kids things they are going to need to know in schools - how to grow things, how to mend things, how to get on with other people. Home economics, how to use leftovers, how to preserve food. How to stay fit when you hate team sports and the games teacher is a monster. (Sorry, non-monster games teachers, but there were an awful lot of sadists who'd gone into PE teaching around in the 1980s.)

Not sure how useful the Michael Gove "let's all read British literature by long-dead Victorian poets" approach from the most recent revision is going to be in the next 50 years. Not that there's anything wrong with British literature, but if it comes to deciding what should have a bit more time on the syllabus, growing things or reading Thomas Hardy, surely no one with any foresight would opt for the latter over the former?

Or of course we could just go the whole hog right now and move across to a synthetic/processed Blue Sun or Soylent Green type bar (not made from people, obviously) with all the nutrients you ever need, carefully measured out so no one ever goes over their decreed allowance....

@Youjustdoyou

Good for you. But you clearly have no knowledge whatsover of the neurology or psychology of addiction.

Literally zero knowledge of the knowledge or research.

Your opinion based on you is valid to you only.

An opinion of a widespread health issue based on 1 person means nothing.

Yeah, we know not everyone that smokes dies prematurely. That doesn't negate all the evidence of smoking leading to premature death.

Same as 'I was sexually abused and didn't end up with MH problems/addiction/criminal justice contact.

Yeah, we know not everyone does. And it's good for them. Doesn't mean there isn't a wealth of evidence saying sexual abuse makes you far, far more likely to experience these consequences than someone that wasn't sexually abused.

The 'I was fat...alcoholic etc' and people should get a grip and just stop making excuses because i'm doing it, is more offensive to me than people that haven't experienced it.

It's so self-absorbed and dismissive and you would hope that people who had been there would be more empathic and not use their experience to criticise others.

When I read threads like these, I always feel like I'm the only (ex)fatty who was fat because I ate too much crap, and didn't move my arse. No 'anxiety', no mysterious 'issues', not 'government's fault', no 'big bones', no special secret. I simply ate shit in vast amounts. And ballooned to size 18/20.

Lost near 7 stone when I reached the end of my tether and got fed up with looking disgusting in everything I wear, and not being able to climb stairs without stopping to catch my breath.

Very low cal diet, weighting and counting everything+walking lots, no special exercise. Single mother, no help with childcare, not much money, so no funds to buy special trendy/fancy foods. Lost weight 5 years ago, kept everything off.

Was it difficult? Not especially. I needed to reach the bottom and understand I cannot continue like this any more. When that happened, everything past it was not super difficult. I had determination and wanted to be/feel normal again.

Isn't there anyone else like me? Every fat person seems to have some sort of complicated 'issues' nowadays, no one is fat because they simply eat too much wrong things any more.

@Siameasy agreed, so much low fat food is a chemical storm as well that leads to increased appetite amongst other things. I lost a lot of weight on keto, although I wasn't too strict and did have carbs with one meal a day, but only if they 'added' something rather than just as a side dish. I am a million times healthier, I don't get cravings for junk, and my BP is much better, despite eating foods traditionally seen as 'fat' foods. The diet industry is worth a lot though, and re-educating people takes time.

Well it serves them right doesn't it? Not only are they disgusting to look at and obviously lazy and greedy and selfish, they're more likely to be seriously ill with COVID. That'll learn 'em.

Are you posting on the wrong thread? No-one on this thread had made any where near the kind of assertion you are describing. Maybe the correlation between obesity and poorer Covid-19 has touched a nerve with you, but there is no fat shaming going on on this thread.

I've been banging on about the importance of vitamin D on here and among friends and family for weeks. I'm quite frustrated that the UK haven't published stats showing vitamin D levels in the blood of all patients admitted to hospital and confirmed cases in care homes. It's vital to assess and publish that now.

Diana I feel the same. I wonder if the govt are reluctant to admit the RDA for vit D is much too low and that lives may have been lost because of this.

And people who are overweight need even more vit D to reach and maintain good levels.
Perhaps the govt have taken this on board and are quietly trying to increase stocks of vitamin D supplements before they tell everyone to take it.

I was once advised about diet by an NHS nurse who was much fatter than me.

I always feel like I'm the only (ex)fatty who was fat because I ate too much crap, and didn't move my arse. No 'anxiety', no mysterious 'issues', not 'government's fault', no 'big bones', no special secret. I simply ate shit in vast amounts. And ballooned to size 18/20.

Same here, although I did/do have a lot of stressors I linked to food, it was still my choice to sit and eat a packet of hob nobs in front of the telly, instead of having just one, or even better, something else entirely. There definitely are exceptions and it definitely isn't as easy as some think and there's often many different factors that contribute; but in my case I was definitely greedy and ate the 'wrong' stuff.

It’s always interesting how this who are obese often say it’s a thyroid issue or poor metabolism.

And then those that have some out the other side and managed to successfully lose weight describe the fact they were obese as being largely due to over eating on a fairly epic scale.