Fat people even more likely to be affected by COVID than previously thought

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UK government scientists are urgently investigating whether people living with obesity may be disproportionately affected by the coronavirus, after emerging data from intensive care units suggested a stronger link than previously thought.

New data from the UK’s Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, which has been presented to ministers and SAGE scientists, has found that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICUs is twice the proportion in the general population.

Ministers have become increasingly alarmed by data coming out of Britain’s intensive care units, with some members of the government suggesting obesity may end up being a factor in the UK’s higher death toll.

The UK is currently projected to have the highest number of coronavirus deaths in Europe. Around 1 in 4 UK adults are obese. In 2018, the WHO found that the UK had the third highest obesity rate in Europe, behind only Malta and Turkey.

More here:
www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-scientists-coronavirus-obesity-link

Fat doesn’t kill you or make you fat (unless it is the shitty refined vegetable oils e.g. sunflower oil, vegetable oil, canola oil, trans fats what do you use? Butter makes me ick a bit.

Olive oil, avocado oil (although I don't agree with the farming of avocado) butter and lard

Imagine saying to someone trying to lose weight to use lard in their cooking? They literally wouldn't believe you! But it is true. It is not bad for you, the body needs it, it satiates you (so reduces appetite) .

BUT you must not mix it with high carbohydrates! That is the killer. So the fact remains that chips are still bad for you if cooked in lard, but less bad than if cooked in crappy vegetable oils. Less bad is not really what we are aiming for!

I could do olive oil, use thst 90 percent of the time anyway.

Not sure I could give up pasta though 😢

So the figures show that a lot of people who get serious consequences from Covid-19 are obese.
Question - is simply being obese a risk factor? Even without the other associated health issues like CVD, hypertension or diabetes.

I think probably Yes since the presence of excess yellow fat, especially around the organs causes an inflammatory response in the body and there seems to be an inflammatory element to developing serious complications from Covid-19.

@Querlouse I follow keto largely, but I do have pasta now and then, wholewheat and not as much as I used to. Instead of having say a huge mound of pasta with some tuna, I'll now have a bit of pasta, a bit of tuna and then bulk it out with salad or veg. I enjoy it so much more, and in honesty when I used to be getting to the end of dinner I'd just be mindlessly shovelling the pasta in anyway; this way I have some and it is fine. Everyone is different of course, but I've found having carbs once a day but as part of a meal is more sustainable.

I’m re-reading The Obesity Code and am at the bit where he pinpoints the year (1977) when the dietary advice changed. It had always been “the fattening carbohydrate” and advised to “avoid sugar and starch” and it then changed to telling people to eat up to SIX servings of starchy carbs a day and recommended drinking “fruit punches”. 🤢

The reference is US but the U.K. followed suit in the early 80s.

Prior to this everyone knew that starch was fattening. In fact I remember pasta being initially thought of as fattening and then being told it wasn’t. Having butter in the fridge then suddenly butter was bad and we had MARG (yuck)

Low carb isn’t a new thing at all - it was written about hundreds of years ago.

Not sure I could give up pasta though

I think once you understand what these highly refined carbohydrates do to sabotage your attempts at weightloss (and blame it on your willpower when you fail) you will want to give up pasta!

To very brutally summarise, here is what happens when you eat a highly refined carbohydrate such as pasta:

• There are approx 43g of carbohydrate in 100g of pasta
• This is classed as a high GI food

What is important now is to understand what happens when you eat 43g of carbohydrate as opposed to 43g of protein or fat:

• The carbohydrate is converted very quickly into glucose in the blood
• This means that your blood sugar is raised
• Your pancreas therefore needs to produce insulin to reduce blood sugar
• Insulin allows cells in the muscles, liver and fat (adipose tissue) to take up this glucose and use it as a source of energy so they can function.
• Without insulin, cells are unable to use glucose as fuel and they will start malfunctioning.
• Extra glucose that is not used by the cells will be converted and stored as fat

That is a really important point, because if you eat a diet high in carbohydrate, usually you do have too much glucose knocking about and literally insulin is pushing that glucose into cells as FAT.

Then, to add insult to injury, what happens if you eat too much glucose laden food (carbohydrate), as soon as the insulin has done it's job of using the immediate energy and then storing the rest in the fat cells - it asks you for more

It says "hey I've run out of easy to use high impact energy" GIVE ME MORE! So you get hunger cravings. It doesn't bother going into the fat cells and using that energy if you give it some more immediate hit energy. This is not a will power thing, it is a biology thing, it's what the body is designed to do! And never in our history have been consumed so much carbohydrate. It used to be a seasonal treat.

If you think of when you eat a McDonalds and are hungry an hour or 2 later, THAT is what is going on. High hit carbohydrate, insulin rushing around to use / store, then immediately asking for more.

You can start to see why fasting is so important and not snacking because this cycle of 'eat carbohydrate, insulin does it's job of using and storing, then it asking for more' takes at least 4 hours. So what spacing out your meals does is make the body go to the fat reserves (and not create more stored fat!), that's what going low carb / keto / blood sugar diet does - it just doesn't provide the excess carbohydrate in the first place.

So when you eat that bowl of pasta, you are essentially giving your body a hit of sugar in it's blood, and it will keep you in a cycle of 'constant cravings' and blood sugar chaos.

Try a bowl of bolognese with a big pile of cheese on it's own (plenty of salt) . You can be full for 12 hours on that, with no cravings for snacks.

Pasta was one of my weaknesses. Eating pasta and bread actually makes me more hungry than I was to start with. I don’t eat grains/flour anymore for that reason. I almost get a “hit” off of pasta. Occasionally I taste a bit when cooking DD’s meals and I think I could eat it without ever stopping.

I think that powerful glute theory could actually be tested on a population level. The vast majority of Dutch people, including obese and elderly people, will have strong glutes from cycling. So if that has a protective effect you’d expect a measurable difference in outcomes on a population level.

A handful of buckwheat pasta with the bolognese?? 🙏

I almost get a “hit” off of pasta.

When you look at the cycle of how we process carbohydrate and sugar, it really is like an addiction. It has all the hallmarks.

As soon as we have processed the last hit....we need more
As soon as we start eating that packet of biscuits, we cannot stop unless we apply enormous willpower. Our bodies don't tell us to stop, they would keep going, it is only mind over matter. Same with anything we are addicted to.

Also, most people report a withdrawal process when coming off sugar and carbohydrate.

A handful of buckwheat pasta with the bolognese??

It's completely up to you! I can only tell you that it will more than likely sabotage your attempts at losing weight in the long term.

Exactly hamster found all you have said to be utterly true for me. I used to feel weak and shaky if I didn’t eat now know that wasn’t hunger it was carb crash.

Also “breakfast is the most important meal of the day” is bollocks and devised by breakfast cereal companies in the states in the 60s!

If we all shifted our thinking obesity would plummet but then so would the profits of these big food conglomerates..,not a conspiracy theorist but come on

hamster, I agree and yet about a month ago the UK's food body issued a consultation saying it was proposing not changing the advice about higher car being good. I just could not believe it. here is it www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/consultations/scientific-advisory-committee-on-nutrition-consults-on-lower-carbohydrate-diets-for-people-with-type-2-diabetes My vegan son says if you are vegan only then high carb is fine which is may be true as I suppose he has low calorie etc but I still tend strongly to the you can eradicate many type 2 diabetes issues with higher protein and fat.

The NHS Newcastle study from my home town found that it did work to get rid of diabetes never mind ensuring weight loss www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation

However for those with not much money and not interested in changing their foods in many cases skipping a meal or two each day and just eating many fewer calories of course also does work as long as you keep it up. Whatever it takes now is a good time to lose weight.

You can be quite healthy in your 20s and obese - I was watching some of those UK fat loss/diet doctor operation programmes on youtube recently and the doctor said as much but when they come into their 30s and 40s that is when the bad knees, diabetes, back back, heart issues start to kick in.

Anyone can be a healthy weight. Just stop snacking on crappy carbs

I find eating less (so presumably less calories and the equivalent of fasting) works brilliantly for me. Carbs and fat doesnt seem to make a difference. Indid the mumsnet keto thing and lost 10lbs hated every minute and put it all back on within a month.

It’s finding what works for your body and lifestyle but being fed duff info from the government and having shops full of alluring cheap heavily advertised addictively delicious processed food the cards are stacked against the public. Makes me so cross - then people are blamed for being fat - well no shit Sherlock!

I love breakfast, my favourite meal of the day. I eat dinner early though, I eat with DS at 5pm and then won't have anything else, so I still have over 12 hours of fasting but the other way round to a lot of people; but it works for me. As does having a bit of pasta and a baked potato now and then, just have to find what works for you and read through studies etc to see which you believe is the most beneficial.

There may be some fortunate people who can eat starchy carbs and not feel addicted and remain within BMI. But I have no control around them so like any addiction I cut them out completely and avoid places where there may be temptation
For me starch is worse than sugar...I never had a sweet tooth but it was things like crisps/bread/pasta-horrific.

And to add an anecdote (because that's all most of us are doing anyway!) you don't have to be poor and uneducated to be clueless...
Sister in law is a GP, her daughter a hospital doctor, her son an engineer and husband a company director/ engineer. All four of them are obese (why do I struggle to say fat?!). Perfectly lovely,
Intelligent people but they are literally the biggest people I know.
Sister in law was a slim teen. But they eat too many Pringles and don't move.

@Siameasy yeah I'm the opposite, I have had to cut out sugar because I have no control, but pasta etc it helps me stay on course if I have a little bit now and then. I guess it's a mixture of the science being accurately communicated by the NHS etc, and also people knowing their own bodies.

I would say I eat well. I don't eat much processed food, eat tons of veg (genuinely love green leafy veg and would eat cabbage or spinach at every meal), olive oil, wholemeal bread. But I eat big portions, too much, plus I drink quite a lot of wine. I'm in the middle of the overweight category and should really get out of it 10lbs i think

It’s absolutely about finding what works for you but in order to do this you need to know the facts hamster set out above. Recently listened to Tom Watson book the mp who lost 8 stone very interesting

@Querlouse you don’t eat well if you drink a lot of wine tbh as it’s full of sugar and is stored as fat around your waist

That’s prob where your extra 10lb is from ..

Quer I switched to having meals on breakfast plates. Was hungry for a few weeks then I adapted to new portion size. My 11 year old recently said “your clothes look so much nicer now there is less of you” which was a nice compliment I think !