Masks

[petalseaside]

Take a look at the data for all the “masks are useless for this Airborne virus, just wash your hands” countries vs. Mask-wearing countries...

I think it’s a combination of mask wearing and also very different cultures. More likely to follow rules, cleaner, regimented and also they followed contract tracing and much higher amounts of tests being carried out.
I do think masks must make a difference though and today I’ll be wearing mine for the first time. One question though, it’s like sponge material! Would that even do anything? I got them online and not sure if it’s any good.

That’s great @Realitea. FFP2 or FFP3 or even homemade ones with a paper towel or panty liner in or coffee filter. Wish all the middle-aged men in power would look at this graph rather than laissez-faire !!!

I’ve just been reading this and it looks as though my sponge ‘pitta’ style mask is completely useless
smartairfilters.com/en/blog/do-pollution-masks-work/

Thanks for the link ! “ Conclusion: Masks capture even the smallest particles—even while people are wearing them—and they have documented health benefits. That should be enough to satisfy even the skeptics!”

Yes! I think everyone should wear masks for sure

I’ve put kitchen roll inside my spongey mask now So hopefully that’ll make it a bit better!

I mainly wear it so I don't infect other people in case I have it. Everyone else should wear it too to keep viral loads down and prevent it becoming air borne.

Problem is, you can'y buy them anywhere at the moment. Even the cloth ones. I'm not physically able to make my own.
If the gov. recommended wearing them, the limited supply we have for medical people would be overwhelmed. (and I already see lots of people wearing the medical ones in public)
If anyone can point me in the direction to a decent, non medical one that would actually do something to stop the spread, I would be happy to buy. But the problem is, I don't know what I am buying- do cloth masks actually catch/prevent anything? What kind of material is best?

There’s loads of people on Etsy selling home made double layer simple cloth masks - the ones I ordered came in 3 days.

But are clothes masks actually any use? Studies show medical face masks are and that cloth masks may actually increase infection (admittedly, this study was in health care workers, not general population):

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577

I'm not a medical-field person or a scientist. I'm just trying to find evidence that non-medical masks actually do anything to prevent infection, and so far, I haven't found anything. I would happily wear one if it was proven to make a difference.

I posted a link in the thread earlier which tests different types of mask. I think as long as you use a filter, even if it’s just kitchen roll, it’ll help.
The thinner surgical ones seem to be really good (not hospital standard but good for us)

I got mine on eBay. You can also find them on amazon and etsy and vista print are making them now too

That's a really useful graph, thank you for sharing, off to look up the source so I can whack some of my relatives and friends over the head with it, metaphorically speaking!

I must have missed the link earlier- really interesting, thank you!

It wont stop you catching it but may help prevent spreading it IF USED CORRECTLY. What has been found is people get complacent about social distancing, tend to touch their faces even more to adjust the mask, and don't clean them properly.

Yes, that's what lots of people don't get. You still need to wash your hands carefully, use Dettol or similar if you can get it on surfaces, monitor your temperature and any other symptoms, keep things clean, and yes, wash the masks. To protect other people from anything you might inadvertently be carrying, the seam also needs to go on the outside.

We did also buy some VERY high thread count cotton (300 TC) pillowcases just in case we have to make our own at any point. And we also have a couple of high thread count pashminas and scarves that we might have to repurpose.

Anyone who doubts the effectiveness of a combination of masks, temperature control, contact tracing, quarantine, and civil obedience with a view to being responsible towards other people and society at large in this thing though really might like to take a look at South Korea. Who have had 24 deaths, I think it was, so far when I looked yesterday; they think they have another few cases now but it looks as if they're people coming (back?) into the country. South Korea is not North Korea; they're a pretty advanced society, so it's much less likely that they're covering anything up than, say, China, or some other countries. (And people needn't think the UK or the US are totally open either - Porton Down and Fort Detrick, anyone?!).

But then the South Koreans learned a LOT from SARS-1 and other outbreaks.

I know someone will be on here saying that "The mask-wearing countries are doing a lot of other things differently, like testing, tracing, they have populations which were hit by SARs" etc. This is actually 100% true and it is absolutely the case that masks are only one factor among many.

However, Japan is an interesting case. It was never hit by SARS, it has barely tested or traced, and its government has bungled the management of COVID19 for the most part. I think they are lucking out for a number of reasons (SOVIET-strain BCG vaccine, slim population, a bunch of other things) but I would be really surprised if masks were not playing a huge role in saving Japan from a far worse death toll than it would otherwise be facing.

Everyone needs to be covering their nose and mouth when they leave the house, unless there are special circumstances (small child, person has reasons making it hard to wear a mask, mask has to be removed or lowered for a specific reason).

I’ve posted these on here before...they don’t know if they protect against this particular virus, and they’re expensive, but should last for 150 hours with a plain water rinse every 50 hours, obviously they are not totally tight fitting either
www.virustaticshield.com/

Really interesting stuff !!! Thank you. Can’t believe deliveries by Amazon, DLD, DHL and the supermarkets are being done house to house Mask-less and Glove-less.

The chart is bogus.

Italy requires masks in some areas

Germany, Belgium, USA all encourage masks.

Masks are still voluntary in Japan (same policy as USA, Germany). masks have mostly been voluntary in HK & are actually discouraged in SKorea.

I'll have to check the South Korean data then, thank you for the heads up. Oh and our Amazon driver had a mask earlier this week. Gloves aren't actually as much protection as people think I believe? They're not as easy to wash as skin for starters.

Unless the delivery driver puts on new gloves for every single delivery and takes them off when touching the van/door handles etc, gloves are just another contaminated surface which will spread infection from item to item.

@ragged you are wrong ! S Korean govn’t have not only encouraged masks but bought up most supplies so that pharmacies could distribute them at fair prices. And mask wearing in Italy, US and Belgium is even now nothing like Singapore, Japan, Vietnam... Have you ever been to hospitals in those countries? Routinely all staff wear facemasks. As for saying “masks are voluntary in HK” have you check the local news there ? Seen photos of the politicians, children, workers ? all
are wearing masks.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_masks_during_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic

"Hong Kong: Members of the public are recommended to wear a surgical mask when taking public transport or staying in crowded places."

recommended, not compulsory.

"South Korea: Masks have been widely used by healthy individuals despite absence of official advice to do so"

absence of endorsement; not universal

"Germany: On March 31, city-county Jena, Thuringia, was the first large German city to introduce an obligation to wear masks, or makeshift masks including scarves, in supermarkets, public transport, and buildings with public traffic, from April 6, very successfully. On April 2, the Robert Koch Institute, the federal epidemic authority, changed its previous recommendation that only people with symptoms should wear masks to also include people without symptoms.[128][129] County Nordhausen, Thuringia, followed the example of Jena, since April 13, several other cities later. German chancellor Merkel and state governors first gave "strong advice" to wear face masks in public from April 20, Saxony made it mandatory from that day, Saxony-Anhalt followed from April 23 and (the rest of) Thurinigia from April 24, finally the governors agreed to make it mandatory, so most other states followed from April 27, except Schleswig-Holstein, from April 29, and Berlin, where shops were excluded first, they were included from April 29."

increasingly became obligatory

"Singapore: Masks have been widely used by healthy individuals despite initial absence of official advice to do so.[157] General mask-wearing was no longer discouraged from April 3,[158] and made mandatory outside of one's residence from April 14"

move only 2 weeks ago to compulsory.

I guess the source for your chart is a Prof. of chemical technology?

According to a survey conducted in South Korea, around 70 percent of respondents stated that they started to wear face masks after coronavirus outbreak. About 19 percent were already wearing masks even before the outbreak and another 11 percent said they do not wear masks regardless of coronavirus. The most popular type of face masks among South Koreans was KF94 health masks.

I guess people must like masks because they think masks are harmless and easy but most importantly something simple they understand and they think they can control.

What kind of mask are you wearing, OP? Do you ever worry you have made surgical masks more expensive for local careworkers to buy?

You're only seeing what the media want you to see in those countries. You say you have 'seen' them all wearing masks. You've seen a news article. I'm all for wearing masks as I do myself anyway but your chart is not correct.

I wonder how many people out there wearing masks realise that the purpose is to stop them infecting others, not others infecting them? When I'm out and about I see lots of people wearing masks, and slit of them wearing them in a way that may place them more at risk.
As for gloves, as mentioned by one poster, unless you're changing then after every task, as a healthcare worker would do, then they really aren't going to help and are actually likely to hinder.

Yes, do understand this. Heard so many times in UK now, “Do not whatever you do wear a mask because they are useless and dangerous, and - moreover - you will be depriving medical staff for whom they are so useful and protective”