Children do infect adults

[cantory]

In a paper, published in the British journal The Lancet Infectious Diseases, the researchers said: 'Notably, the rate of infection in children younger than 10 years (7.4 per cent) was similar to the population average (6.6 per cent).
There was no significant association between the probability of infection and age of the index case.'

This meant that children were as likely as adults to both catch the virus and to spread it.

The researchers added: 'Analyses of how cases are detected, and use of data on individuals exposed but not infected, indicate that infection rates in young children are not lower than the population average (even if rates of clinical disease are).'

@cantory - you seem to be really struggling with the difference between infection and transmission.

By repeating sections of the Shenzen study which was based on a small sample of 391 and produced nearly two months ago which stated that children are as likely as adults to become infected as adults , does not scientifically substantiate your personal view that children are as likely as adults to transmit it. Scaremongering however does unnecessarily frighten some already very worried parents.

people have been saying for weeks that kids don't spread it

Sounds like a straw man argument. I started a thread discussing the evidence that children may be less infectious than adults. I stated clearly that this did not mean not infectious. Have people actually being arguing that kids don't spread it at all?

@1dayatatime I have always said that most children get it mildly and that very few children die. Please do not imply that I have ever said anything else.
Secondly the study you keep saying that shows that children do not transmit the virus is based on ONE child. That is it. Why you think that is more valid than other research I have no idea.

The study in China says children get the virus at the same rate as adults although most have incredibly minor symptoms. But there is nothing to suggest they transmit it less.
There is also a study from Germany which another poster refers to that says the same.
All but very vulnerable children are at very low risk of dying. There are children in the shielded group and it will be these children who are at risk.
But to say that children do not transmit this virus as many posters have been saying is not based on any evidence at all except ONE boy. That is it.

If the UK actually did proper testing and contact tracing we would know what is happening here and whether children were transmitting the virus. We do not.

@kokechi Yes people have been arguing that children do not spread the virus at all. Over multiple threads.
And when posters have been sceptical about they have been ridiculed.

There is no evidence that children are less infectious than adults. There are theories around that based on ONE child and ideas that because children usually have very mild symptoms they are less likely than adults to be coughing and thus spreading the virus.

We need to have far more research before posters go around telling parents that if their child catches covid 19 they will not spread it to anyone else. This is important because although a child may have very mild symptoms, they may live with a parent who is shielding or very vulnerable. At the moment it is safer for parents who are themselves at risk to assume their child could transmit the virus to them.

At a basic level, given the hysteria around catching covid from walking past people, touching Amazon parcels and stroking dogs, it’s very unlikely that children don’t transmit the disease.

You can say it is hysteria around parcels, but that is official advice.

I suspect transmission through parcels is unlikely, but then my friend who works in infectious control is cleaning all her mail and food cartons. So who knows?

WHAT?? there is official advice on b touching Amazon parcels??

It djoes seem like peiple want to cling to children not transmitting it

You see I think the opposite. I think that people who don’t want children to go back to school for whatever reason are clinging to the fact that they do.
It doesn’t matter to me either way. If it’s safe to send my children back I will, if it’s not I won’t. If I don’t think it’s safe when we’re told to send them back and they say it’s compulsory, I’ll deregister them.
The overall decision on opening schools is not going to be made my Mumsnetters who have read some studies though.

I haven’t seen the official advice over cleaning parcels either? I know someone on the One Show talked through how to clean them, but a) they didn’t say it was necessary, just gave a method and b) that surely doesn’t count as official government advice?

''Drivingdownthe101 If it’s safe to send my children back I will, if it’s not I won’t. If I don’t think it’s safe when we’re told to send them back and they say it’s compulsory, I’ll deregister them.''

I agree with this. But at the same time i wonder how on earth we are meant to decide what we really think when there's so much conflicting 'evidence' flying about.

We all want to feel we're doing what's best for our children (and the rest of their household) but few of us are scientifically minded enough to make an informed decision about that. Therefore we are supposed to put our faith in government decisions when they have collated all the info.. However it's well within most folk's ability to understand that the governments decision making processes is often shite based on different priorities than those of the majority.

Leaves me floundering about feeling rather lost to be honest.

And no i wasn't aware of actual official advice about parcels either. Only different studies about how long the virus might last on different surfaces under different conditions ...

It was never based on one child. There was a review of 78 studies worldwide plus the China/WHO joint commission being unable to find a case (at the time of the report) of any child under 10 transmitting the virus to an adult.

Australias decision to reopen schools was based on their own track and trace study for instance which found no evidence of COVID positive children infecting teachers.

I agree decisions can be made by parents.
However, many people trust the gov info on
Masks
Deaths
Testing and positives

Masks we were told made no difference yet almost all other countries ise them
We are told they are testing yet only ever tested italy returners and hospital admitted
We are told daily deaths yet these are weeks old and didnt include care homes or people at home. And only positive people.
Nhs are told they dot need ppe until it's a confirmed case =100+ have died.
We were told cheltenham was ok - look at the postcodes around there.
Oh and told other countries going back to school

• the ones with low infection and low death and not italy spain? Nyc.
• some countries using masks in classrooms
• 10-15 per class and certain year groups.

Deaths of children low but still a few thousand i think hospitalised.

I wouldnt be surprised if many parents keep kids out (not exactly because of the risk to the kids) but risk to the 17m vulnerable some of whom are parents. But mainly because only a crazy person would trust anythung the gov did right now.
It is certainly possible they are still goong for herd immunity so they can get the economy running. As they are just not trying hard to track trace and test.
If they do go down the routes of

• fining for absence
• keeping schools open with cases

It will be clear what their intentions are.

Similar to returning positive covid back to care homes.. No doubt gov will end up in court over their handling of covid.

The government may well end up in court over the handling of it, as may the governments of some other countries.
A close friend of mine in France posted a huge rant on Facebook this morning about lack of PPE, the government leaving it too late to impose lockdown, lack of adequate testing particularly in the early stages, and the fact that their government are not being transparent with numbers and are treating them like idiots.

FFS, the official advice is handling post is perfectly safe. Open the parcel, put the wrappers in the bin and then WASH YOUR HANDS.

Amazon Prime Now have had to put an alert on their delivery messages telling people to put fresh stuff in the fucking fridge because people are believing made up stuff they read on the internet and leaving their yoghurt in the garage for two days to decontaminate it

It’s not based on one child. Why do you keep saying that?! Why can you not understand the difference between infection and transmission? This is the Dutch government announcement.

Jaap van Dissel, Director Public Health Netherlands (RIVM)

The Netherlands has been monitoring corona-transmission for the last few months. Children (0-18) are only 0.7% of all reported covid-19 cases while this age group is actually 20% of the population. These findings are similar to reports in other countries in Europe, Asia and USA.

Additionally, there is a national monitoring system involving 40 GPs that is used to evaluate general public health in The Netherlands. From 137 samples tested from children who visited their GP with covid-like symptoms, none were positive.

Through testing and contact tracing over the last two months by the GGD, there has not been a single cluster of covid-infection reported that has arisen from a child, a school or a daycare. This supports the evidence that children do not play any significant role in spreading corona-infection.

After closure of schools in March, there has not been a decrease in the relative number of children with covid-19, compared to before the schools closed. If there was a spread of corona infection through schools, then closure would have been expected to have an impact. This is another indication that children do not play any significant role in spreading infection.

The RIVM has studied transmission within households in detail, and these studies will continue when the schools open. In households, children have less infection than adults, which again supports that children are not responsible for spreading infection at home. Rather it is the adults who transmit to their children. There is also very little transmission between children within the same household. No clusters have been found in households that have originated from children (no child ‘index’ cases).

Random immunity-testing of 2100 people has shown that 3.6% of adults have had infection (as measured by the presence of antibodies) but in children aged 12-18 years this is only 1%.

Taken together these studies support that in children are much less often infected and have milder symptoms than adults, and importantly that children are most likely infected by adults and not the other way around.

Contact tracing and testing will continue when the schools have opened and some schools will be asked to take an active role in more extensive monitoring.

@2outof3Mightbebad I dont understand why people are ignoring the evidence review of 78 studies in favour of a couple of newspaper reports.

@helpfulperson Me neither! And nor are people like me saying 'it never happens or never will', just saying there have been multiple studies from around the world which aren't coming up with a lot of evidence that children transmit to adults and that's important.

I was on lots of the 'kids going back to school' threads and no-one was claiming the one child from France was the only study so not sure why OP thinks that happened.

Oh my - OP has caught the infodemic of misinformation

WHO discussed this in a recent press conference. This should go to the right time, if not it's from 57:50

FFS, the official advice is handling post is perfectly safe. Open the parcel, put the wrappers in the bin and then WASH YOUR HANDS.

Amazon Prime Now have had to put an alert on their delivery messages telling people to put fresh stuff in the fucking fridge because people are believing made up stuff they read on the internet and leaving their yoghurt in the garage for two days to decontaminate it

Oh @ChipotleBlessing - you could not make this up

If you can catch it from shaking hands with someone who has been in contact with someone who has it, then surely an infected child must be able to spread it too? It doesn't make sense. What am I missing.

Children are humans too. So funnily enough I’d expect them to be able to spread the disease the same ways as adult humans. Coughing, sneezing, touch cross contamination etc 🤷‍♀️

I think the idea of children not being spreaders was to justify the desire to get them back to school as quickly as possible.

Jesus. ‘Humans’ do not all respond to the same infection in the same way. Children are not the same as adults. Why would scientists be exploring the differences if ‘human’ was a sufficient breakdown of categories?!

Threads like these convince me there is an urgent need for more education for kids and adults.