"Germany has fewer deaths due to earlier treatment"

[lljkk]

I saw this claim on the Germany threads... sorry, didn't want me asking to get lost in long threads. The claim was that people in Germany with c19 get admited to hospital earlier and then... something special happens. They get some great treatment that means a lower death rate.

What is the special treatment that MNers know about, that is available in Germany but always administered too late or not offered in UK?

Swiss death rate in terms of deaths per number of cases is only a little above that of Germany. There are a lot more deaths per million of population in Switzerland because there is about twice the infection rate per million than Germany. The regions with the highest infection rates are thise bordering France and Italy...the German cantons just haven't been hit as badly.

I thought Germany were recording their deaths differently. Here if someone has a stroke and has covid, cause of death will be recorded as covid. In Germany they would put stroke so will not be in figures for covid deaths. I think it's only if they are absolutely sure it was covid that killed them that they record that as cause of death.

"thought Germany were recording their deaths differently."
No, sophie that's a myth

Official policy from RKI (German public health)

Any death "with" COVID in Germany is counted as a death "from" COVID

Also
Germany includes all deaths in care homes and any state institutions e.g prisons

The UK does not include care home deaths. or the total would be about 50% higher
The Financial Times puts UK deaths at 43,000

The USA and European countries studied all have around 50% of deaths in care homes

Bontopia I don't think Switzerland includes care home deaths in their total ?

According to the new zealand nurse who looked after Boris, he was not given oxygen earlier than others, was not moved into ICU earlier than others and definitely needed to be there

Why is a patient’s confidential information being shared?

According to these graphs and maps, Germany (Berlin and Hesse) have had similar spikes in excess deaths compared to other European countries in recent years (e.g. severe influenza in Spring 2018) but not now.

Move sliders -
www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

Delayed reporting of excess deaths in Germany?

"My understanding is that my local hospitals have about 150 cv19 people in them who are not in ICU. If those folk in regular beds aren't getting Oxygen, fluids, or antibiotics for secondary infections, then I wonder what they are getting (other than a bed)."

They are getting those things though

But are told to stay at home until they are very poorly. And this virus is causing silent hypoxia which is absolutely terrifying

www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-testing-pneumonia.html

Clavinova Germany's stats come out on Thursday

With a federal republic and 16 German states it takes much longer to collate deaths at home than for a centralised country like the UK

The UK'S ONS is a treasure trove of data that we should all be proud of
Germany may copy this, as a one of the lessons learned from the pandemic

These are influenza stats for Germany - over 180,000 cases and 434 deaths

Even with German ICUs taking in some very ill patients from Italy, France, NL
there are about 2,500 COVID patients in ICU,
so about 41% of the 32,000 ICU beds in the 16 states are vacant

Even at the peak, there was still about 40% free capacity

However, Germany is starting very cautiously to relax some lockdown measures, so those free beds may be needed if it goes wrong

No health system in the world, including Germany's, can cope if exponential infection growth of COVID runs wild
There is absolutely no complacency here

Relaxing lockdown will be walking a tightrope for every country

It makes sense that giving people early intervention leads to better outcomes. That's what needs to be done with so much excess capacity in the system. Giving someone 2 days of oxygen makes more sense than leaving them at home till they are gasping and then need 8 days in ICU.

Germany is testing a lot more than the UK, which means that even very mild cases are included in the statistics.
Let's say you have 100 people who have symptoms. In the UK, let's imagine that 10 of them are tested, and one dies, so that's a death rate of 1 in 10. In Germany, let's say 90 are tested, so the one person who dies makes a death rate of 1 in 90. (Imagined figures, but you see what I mean?)

If those folk in regular beds aren't getting Oxygen, fluids, or antibiotics for secondary infections

Not all covid-19 patients will need ICU and oxygen, IV fluids and antibiotics are still given (when needed) on regular wards.