Childminder pay

[Christmascaker]

Evening all. We’ve just received an invoice from our childminder for 100% fees for May. Just wanted to know if this was standard practice or if anyone had been offered a reduced rate? She seems to think she will be open again in May. I understand she has bills to pay but thought even a small reduction as she’s not providing for etc would be a gesture of goodwill? She’s great and we don’t want to upset her or lose our place but I can’t work out if we’re being unreasonable to expect a reduction however small?

She also needs to consider the relationship she will have with parents after this. How does she know you are still receiving full pay? Your employer could well say in the coming weeks that you will have to reduce your hours if you cannot fulfil your childcare and work commitments. Lots of businesses have already said this to employees.

I would also be reluctant to pay as a contractual term (as it's clear in the contract that she cannot charge). But I would consider a voluntary payment.

If also be conscious of committing funds myself that I may need in the coming months. You have no idea what your financial position will be. You may need that £800.

Her costs have surely reduced? Days out aren't happening, she needs no new supplies, food & nappy costs. She's also still receiving government funding. I'd be concerned she's going to benefit financially from this.

Does she say why she wont get the pay out in June for the self employed? If she has paid her taxes properly then she will. If she hasn't been declaring them then that is her look out, not yours.

We still pay our childminder full rates because our income hasn’t changed.

She keeps insisting it isn’t necessary as she’d previously said she wouldn’t expect any money, but we still send it to her.

She is amazing, she has bent over backwards in the past to help us out so we see this as our way of thanking her for it.

My childminder looks after the things that are most precious to me. She is wonderful and I fully expect to use her for several more years. She’s always been flexible for us and makes my life so much easier.

Having to close is not her fault.

I’m very lucky to be in a secure job & still being paid in full. It doesn’t lose me money to keep paying her, or leave me worse off - that money is already committed out of my monthly income.

I really struggle to understand why anyone in the same position as I am would find it acceptable not to keep paying actually. Different if your income has reduced but with full income still - mean and petty not to.

I'm full of admiration of all those on mn that are paying their childminder in full, but not one of my 11 families are paying me. Tbh unless you're contract states usual payment in this scenario, I think she's ambitious asking for full pay but do slightly envy her having no the front to actually ask. The contract your signed is what counts not what she decided to email you a week before lockdown - if you can afford to pay her something that would no doubt go a long way to fostering good future relations and may well keep her in business, but I wouldn't be paying 100%. If she has other employment or has been childminding less than a year, it's true she won't qualify for the grant plus it isn't due for another month or so at least (& is 80% after expenses some of which will still need to be paid)so i can see many childminders not being around in 3 months if they don't receive any income from parents.

@Hibbetyhob my intention is definitely not to be “mean or petty” hence we’ve paid for our days in March and April when she has been closed.

We were expecting that since the governments announcement of support for self employed that she may have adjusted her expectations a little. I believe the reason that she doesn’t qualify is that she’s only been open for 3 years with the first year being a “setting up year”.

I just feel she could have handled the situation much better. The bottom line is that we are paying a lot of money and receiving nothing in return. I keep running through so many different ways that she could have handled the situation better that would have had a more positive outcome for both of us. We are currently annoyed at paying for nothing and she feels bad asking for us to pay for nothing. Surely that’s not right?!?

mean and petty not to

And you are sentimental and daft.

@LaureBerthaud I can see how it would seem like and a lot of our friends (who are paying no childcare costs) would agree with you. I suppose ultimately we’ll have to decide if we want to spend that money on holding a place with someone we know and trust or risk finding someone new when we return to work!

You certainly can refuse contractually as you’ve said the clauses specify no payment if closed. So she can’t enforce the debt against you. But use this time to seek a new childminder - will your child be heading to school soon? If so I’d consider a new childminder.

Equally it should be a time where compromise is allowed. The fact that she’s not willing to means she expects to be paid for not providing a service. You’ve been good to pay her for March/April so I’m surprised she is being so demanding when it’s not clear if lockdown will continue throughout May.

Have a read of this

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-citizens-advice-works/citizens-advice-consumer-work/the-consumer-rights-act-2015/

Covers services that cannot be provided and your rights

@Theyweretheworstoftimes thank you, I’ll have a read!

Your childminder will still get some of the grant. The amount of the grant will be based on the her average trading profits as reported in their last three tax returns submitted for 2016/17 to 2018/19. If she didn't make much of a profit during the first year, the monthly average of profits will be calculated based on the other two years.

From Childminding.co.uk

As a general rule, events like war, riots and global pandemics are considered to be ‘force majeure’ events which means that the normal obligations of the contract may change or not apply at all.
We have taken legal advice which states that changing the contract wording to include a new clause that forces parents to pay childminders in full during ‘force majeure’ events would not likely to be legally enforceable in the courts.
If you do want to add something to your contracts, bear in mind it may not be legally enforceable and may be considered by some to be morally and ethically wrong.

Thank you for that info. It’s the last sentence there that I think is where the difficulty is. I suppose she could argue that morally we should pay her? I think if we go down the contracts route the relationship we have will break down.

I agree with pp's that she's unreasonable to ask 100% fee.

Obviously she still has bills to pay and it'd be reasonable to ask for, say, a retainer fee. Maybe 50% of the normal fee.

But she needs to ask for it, not demand it. I agree that she has handled it poorly.

If you're really keen on keeping her, I'd offer a retainer fee (however much you're happy to give her). If she's not happy with that I'd give her notice. How accomodating I'd be willing to be depends on how long you've been her client and how accomodating she's been for you in the past (for instance, understanding if/when you were running late, etc)

She can argue morally all she likes, morally she shouldnt be charging for a service she isnt providing when she will have some other income.

It all comes back to what other posters have said- if you want can afford to and need to use her post apocalypse or if you'll struggle to find someone new, offering some kind of payment might be best. I'd offer 20% and let her talk me up to 50% if it were me. But only if I could afford it.

@Tonemeth what other income is she getting? The last payments I received were end of Feb for March child care and not has a penny since. I didn't choose to shut, I'm not rubbing my hands with glee that I haven't got to work - it's a shit situation for everyone and most of us childminders not working are seriously suffering financially (& some are struggling emotionally with the way families have treated them) and if op can afford to pay her something that would be great.

That said, I do think she's not helping herself by demanding 100%.

Universal credit and then the payments she will get whenever the self employed money comes out.

Let's be honest- shes not going to pay the full fees back, is she?

And as above, shes not following her own contract. She cant unilaterally change her rules to suit. It isnt right.

@Tonemeth but if her partner is still earning she may not be eligible for UC plus it wouldn't have paid out yet (I submitted my claim the day they announced lockdown/I stopped work and completed family income 4 days ago but still not received anything. Mind you, we're unlikely to get anything anyway due to dh's earning. He does a manual job and doesn't earn a huge sum (even less at the moment) but too much to qualify however like many people our bills were fine on our joint income, but impossible on one salary

My childminder usually charges me £140 a month ( wrap around care for 1 child half the week) I am on furlough and husband has had 10% pay cut so I suggested I pay £100,.....she was reluctant to take any money from me, but I insisted and have paid her it and will continue to.

mymadworld I think the question is, who's responsibility is that? I dont think customers who have signed a contract in good faith should bare the brunt of the childminders situation. I dont mean to be harsh and I'm trying to think how better to phrase it but ultimately if the contract says x and the customer has signed it on that basis, they cant then have those terms changed to suit the situation. If it weren't coronavirus and the cm was ill for a protracted amount of time, it wouldn't be the "customers" responsibility to support the cm so why is it now?

This cm has been an absolute CF - I think we can agree on that. I think ultimately if people can afford to pay they should pay something. But what about those who cant work because they have no child care? Is the cm's loss of income their problem?

Ours closed and hasn’t charged

But at first she asked for full money but think it was a lot of stress etc Claiming she will have to go bankrupt

I looked at the nursery’s accounts her and her husband took 120k salary’s last 3 years so I wouldn’t have paid

Quick update, we emailed to question (very politely) why the fees haven’t been reduced. She didn’t really answer this but said to let her know if we have any difficulty in paying and has reduced the fees to include half term, this doesn’t help us as we have a term time only contract. She thinks she’ll be open in May, I’m not sure where she’s got that information from. I think we’ve made it clear that if she isn’t open next month we will not be paying the full amount. It’s caused us a lot of unnecessary stress!

@Mancity100 how do you know that their profits are so high? That’s an impressive income for childcare!!!