Social distancing in schools- mental health

[Myfriendanxiety]

Does anyone else feel that they would rather home school their children indefinitely than send them to a school where they have to social distance?

I really worry about the mental health of children if they are forced to sit alone at desks 2m apart from others without any proper play time or interaction. I just can’t see how this type of schooling is going to be beneficial to children and how it will create a positive learning environment.

My DS has another year before he starts school luckily- but if he were starting in September to a school system based on social distancing then I wouldn’t be sending him.

They can't force teachers to go back in unsafe conditions. I don't know what the solution is but there has to be social distancing or PPE or the teaching unions will just say no. A lot of teachers have underlying health conditions and they have to be protected if they are expected to go back Like I say, this hasn't been the case for many other industries where very close contact with others is happening so to say that the unions won't allow it is all very well but if the government wants the schools to open, they will regardless. Teachers are no more vulnerable than healthcare workers etc who, unless working on covid wards, are no wearing PPE. myself and my colleagues have been working without PPE, and wash our hands frequently throughout the day and regularly wipe down surfaces because it's a small environment with lots of us in and we come into close contact with our "clients" all the time. Touch wood, we have all remained well thus far. Providing teachers regularly wash their hands and don't touch their faces, physical contact with the children will be no riskier for them than it is going to the supermarket etc. If a teacher has a severe underlying condition that makes the risk too great,, individual discussions will need to be had about how to proceed but keeping all schools closed for some of the teaching staff is frankly ridiculous!

They can't force teachers to go back in unsafe conditions. I don't know what the solution is but there has to be social distancing or PPE or the teaching unions will just say no. A lot of teachers have underlying health conditions and they have to be protected if they are expected to go back

I think most of us do realise that, that’s why the thread is about discussing the MH impact on the children of going back in that scenario.
I fully support the teachers right to protect themselves and wouldn’t expect them to teach without safety measures in place.
I also think my young children (y1 and reception) would be better off at home than being at school in those circumstances, so will be switching to home schooling if necessary. I suspect a fair few may do the same, which will have the added benefit of reducing numbers in classes and making social distancing easier.

I was with 5 yesterday, it was fine in the classroom but when we went outside, they morphed into magnets desoite constant reminders.

Whaddyathinkofthis - i dont think it will be easy or particularly possible. I do kinda expect the government to announce thats what schools will be doing and i do think that we will be expected to make a 'show' of social distancing in someway as part of convincing people is safe to send their children to school and for teachers to be there. So i am fully expecting to be at school, with the caretaker and the head shuffling furniture around and taping off pick up zones and creating teacher zones. After 9/11 the government brought in some measures in the airline indusrty that were simply about public confidence and not safety.
They might not have considered people worrying about mental health though!

I totally agree with the above teachers need to face reality that they are frontline like the medical workers and they should be expected to resume teaching in Sept. I don’t know what union teachers are apart of but it’s that’s the case nurses must be in the wrong union.

I can totally see this being a show tbh. "See, we advised schools/nurseries/after school clubs what to do"...

we advised schools/nurseries/after school clubs what to do"...

So then the media, parents, carers and goodness knows who else, will have another thing to blame schools and staff for.

Re pickups and drop-offs: In most countries, children over 7 or so walk home alone or in walking groups. Could the UK not consider managing the traffic heavily around schools (and getting parent volunteers to man the crossings, like they do here in Japan?), so that as many kids as possible can walk home alone? Or at least walk part of the way home. They could walk out to pickup points in the neighborhoods around the school where their parents could meet them, which would reduce the problem of everyone clustering into a really small space together.

Who knows, it might be a good way to encourage independence and reduce the traffic problem around schools for the long term.

Our primary school is three miles away walking isn't an option . We like in Scotland with awful weather it just wouldn't be safe .

Yup @GrimmsFairytales, that's pretty much it.

The current guidance already sets those settings which are open (especially those for younger kids) up to fail. In the case of Scottish childcare settings it's also contrary to many of the normal requirements we're expected to follow about freeplay and so on - in recent years the expectation has been that we'll be very hands off, play is child led, they play with who they want how they want, we should only intervene in physical/rough and tumble play if it goes too far, and so on. Only saying Scottish as I know our normal requirements, inspection approach etc. It's probably the same elsewhere.

So then the media, parents, carers and goodness knows who else, will have another thing to blame schools and staff for.

Precisely.

teachers need to face reality that they are frontline like the medical workers and they should be expected to resume teaching in Sept

We are still teaching; we are still in schools and we are happy about returning to the classroom in September.

The concern is around returning sooner than that, in May/June, with expectations of SD. Both in terms of its practicality and the impact on the mh health of the children they expect to comply with it.

The difference between medical staff and teachers is that medical staff are necessary in order to save lives. A couple of months of lost education isn't comparable with lost life or the schools wouldnt have been 'closed' in the first place.

I know teaching is being done online a lot of teachers are not in school where I live. At my child hub there is staff but they are not teachers and it does state on direct gov that teachers are basically there to babysit the children.
I agree for the time being it won’t harm children to be home schooled. My point is by Sept I would have the children go back to school.
I have no problem with schools being shut in this first place I am fully aware the aim was to slow the spread not stop it completely. I think that is what some fail to understand

I was with 5 yesterday, it was fine in the classroom but when we went outside, they morphed into magnets desoite constant reminders.
This was absolutely my experience too, even just moving from the room we used to the hall for break, and when we had pe outside no one was managing to walk 2m apart - everyone was holding the (many) doors open for each other for one thing.
What worries me is if the government decision is "it's safe to open the schools as long as there is social distancing" when the reality would be no social distancing. They need to decide it's safe to open without social distancing.
I'm not sure if the key workers children I saw were any happier with their chance to see other children than my own who haven't seen a friend for 5 weeks tbh.

This is an English translation of the explanation of why the Netherlands are reopening schools. It seems to suggest the risks of opening schools are extremely limited. Assuming the Dutch data is replicated elsewhere I don’t think we need to be making wild plans about social distancing within primary schools. The kids can go back without significant risks.

Jaap van Dissel, Director Public Health Netherlands (RIVM)

The Netherlands has been a monitoring corona-transmission for the last few months. Children (0-18) are only 0.7% of all reported covid-19 cases while this age group is actually 20% of the population. These findings are similar to reports in other countries in Europe, Asia and USA.

Additionally, there is a national monitoring system involving 40 GPs that is used to evaluate general public health in The Netherlands. From 137 samples tested from children who visited their GP with covid-like symptoms, none were positive.

Through testing and contact tracing over the last two months by the GGD, there has not been a single cluster of covid-infection reported that has arisen from a child, a school or a daycare. This supports the evidence that children do not play any significant role in spreading corona-infection.

After closure of schools in March, there has not been a decrease in the relative number of children with covid-19, compared to before the schools closed. If there was a spread of corona infection through schools, then closure would have been expected to have an impact. This is another indication that children do not play any significant role in spreading infection.

The RIVM has studied transmission within households in detail, and these studies will continue when the schools open. In households, children have less infection than adults, which again supports that children are not responsible for spreading infection at home. Rather it is the adults who transmit to their children. There is also very little transmission between children within the same household. No clusters have been found in households that have originated from children (no child ‘index’ cases).

Random immunity-testing of 2100 people has shown that 3.6% of adults have had infection (as measured by the presence of antibodies) but in children aged 12-18 years this is only 1%.

Taken together these studies support that in children are much less often infected and have milder symptoms than adults, and importantly that children are most likely infected by adults and not the other way around.

Contact tracing and testing will continue when the schools have opened and some schools will be asked to take an active role in more extensive monitoring.

That’s interesting, ChipotleBlessing

That's really interesting ChipotleBlessing, very much in line with what I'd been reading elsewhere but I hadn't seen the Dutch info.

They need to decide it's safe to open without social distancing

You have said that so much more succinctly than I managed to! But totally agree.

And not pretend it's going to be otherwise.

Or parents are going to be very upset when children go home talking about the reality if their parents are expecting SD to be happening. And it will be teachers who bear the brunt of frustration at government decisions. Again.

My point is by Sept I would have the children go back to school.

Yep, I think that's what the majority of us were working towards tbh.

It'll just be concerning if the government decide to bring that forward with the caveat of SD being in place.

I am fully aware the aim was to slow the spread not stop it completely. I think that is what some fail to understand

I agree.

ChipotleBlessing

So it appears to stop at the child? Interesting reading.

Personally I don't believe the 2m thing is right anyway. The virus can travel a lot further than that if someone is infected and there are plenty of surfaces to pick it up from.

I don't see how the social distancing is going to work in schools as they are just not big enough my MIL school (when they closed apart from key workers children could only take 40 kids max for them to social distance properly) this is a school with over 800 kids.

@SpudsAreLife84

If a teacher has a severe underlying condition that makes the risk too great,, individual discussions will need to be had about how to proceed but keeping all schools closed for some of the teaching staff is frankly ridiculous!

It would be, if I'd said that but I didn't. Why pretend I did?

That's what has been seen in several studies now - minimal to no cases of children transmitting and certainly not even close to the children as super spreaders concept.

If schools open, parents need to understand SD will most likely be a moot point & you should have the choice to send or not.
My DC will be going to school/college for various reasons, including their MH, the fact DH is a key worker & I ( depending if they open 🙏🤞 ) will be at university.

So social distancing won’t work in schools. Which leaves a few options...

1. Go back under the pretence of their being social distancing in place but with the knowledge that it probably won’t happen

2. Go back with no social distancing measures in place, accepting the risks that brings, if any.

3. Don’t go back until there is no longer any requirement for social distancing due to their being a vaccine programme that has been successfully rolled out (2021?)

Any decision will of course have to be balanced against the risks of children being out of education for a significant period, particularly for the most vulnerable or ‘at risk’ children.

Glad I’m not making the decisions!

I’d be comfortable sending my kids back to school on the basis of the Dutch government analysis. It seems safe.