Financial Times report/study - 41,000 deaths in the UK

[Cam77]

Which would make the UK the second worst hit country in the entire world, factoring for population, after Belgium. The March dithering/herd immunity farce/Cheltenham,Twickenham, Marathons, pop concerts idiocy now looks criminally negligent. That’s before we get onto the testing/PPE cockups. One can only imagine how the papers would be reacting to this utter shambles if Labour were at the helm. I expect there would certainly be mass calls for top government figures to step down - and right now, not in a year or twos time after the inevitable public enquiry.

You’d expect it ... wouldn’t hold your breath though most people think they are doing a marvellous job

Unfortunately I think they are right.

I haven't read the article-what do they base that on?
Completely agree re if Labour were in power. Labour always seem to be lauded as disorganised & inefficient, but I cannot see any party being more shambolic than the Tories at the moment. However as they control the papers that is not the message being received by the general public.

In principle I agree and I think it’s an absolute scandal the way this government has managed this from start to finish.

But I don’t think a change of government would be in the country’s best interests now. The upheaval and distraction would just increase the delay.

amp.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab?__twitter_impression=true
Hopefully this link works and i think this is the article.

You’d expect it ... wouldn’t hold your breath though most people think they are doing a marvellous job

This is sadly true. They've somehow convinced a worrying number of people that everyone will get it at some point and we can all just ignore the death toll, so long as the NHS is coping.

Other countries will have similar issues with data so we need to make sure we're comparing apples with apples. Not to mention that the numbers we are getting out of China, Iran and Russia are highly unreliable.

Well, other countries are saying the same about the UK, and the experts in the UK are saying the same (ie the article referenced above) so it looks like apples are apples wherever you are tbh.
China has undoubtedly put out incorrect figures. So has the UK if the truth is 41,000 and not 17.

PowerslidePanda what did YOU think was going to happen? That we'd wake up and find it was just a dream?

A virus can be contained sometimes if only a handful have it (too late for that) or it can be vaccinated against. Otherwise everyone will be exposed and a percentage will die.

TheCanterburyWhales we're not faking the data. The lower figure is people who we are virtually certain died of the virus. The higher one is based on counting how many people died and subtracting the average for this time of year. We often don't know for sure how someone died so for example some of those extra death might have been the flu.

All the people who need to know already understand this. The only people confused by it are some of the general public.

FRance is adding in care homes. The no, is huge. They should be more transparent. I have heard 3 different figures todAy.

By the time all those events took place it was very evident that it was high risk to go to them. People have to take responsibility for their own safety. Our household had already been mainly locked down and kids kept off school a week before official lock down took place, yet I had friends still going to crowded pubs for St Patricks day and large numbers of people still going to these events. yes these events should have been cancelled but people also could take responsibility for their own safety.

@babyroobs
Okay then, personal responsibility. But why was the government, through their words and actions, actively encouraging people to attend high risk events? What next, encouraging two pack a day smoking habit and binge drinking? I guess it’s good to have a wide range of political options on the ballot in a democracy, but I won’t be voting for these psychotic/incompetent bastards.

I have read of people complaining that they are ill after attending Cheltenham etc. Twats. Nobody made them go, it was clearly not right to have the events go ahead. Why can't people take responsibility for themselves?

Think what i was trying was that the gov seemed to always want to compare itself favourably against other european countries at all cost. I had some faith in the gov and the figures until the gov scientific advisor said the uk was tracking france - this was not the truth. Hospital deaths v total deaths. The gov. Graphs are fairly simple and i would assume that a gov science would know what what they represented. Yes it is confusing when different countries count them differently but dont say it. Or compare like with like.

@ginghamstarfish
People presume the government knows what it’s doing. If a terorrist attack is possible/likely in a mall, a competent government closes the mall. If it isn’t likely, it remains open. Surely I don’t need to spell it out anymore do I? The government is supposed to lead the country or govern, if you prefer.. Boris Johnson shaking his way around a hospital at the beginning of March wasn’t leading the country was it ... leading the “twats” perhaps, to use your word?

@LastTrainEast - You've demonstrated my point perfectly, thank you! There is a massive chasm between nipping a virus in the bud and resigning ourselves to everyone getting infected, yet some people can only see those two options. No wonder we're headed for such a bad outcome compared to other countries!

Useful background and explanation on how the FT made the estimate here:
mobile.twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1252841436317315072