So any old mask Is protective now? FFS

[HMSSophie]

Did I dream that, back when this all started, we were assured by the government that non clinical masks did nothing to protect us because the virus was so tiny it would pass straight through, and that anyone who thought that clipping on their "decorators mask" to pop to Tesco's was a good idea, was in fact a fool, a panic monger and, to be honest, rather an embarrassment to the nation?

So how come I saw someone telling me on Tv last night that even a double -folded piece of cotton would foil 99%'of virus spores (or whatever they are called).

Which is it? This government is unbelievable!!

This could be because in those countries people only wear masks if they are ill and not everyone does.

Possibly. But some countries where mask wearing was relatively normal before covid, often did so because of pollution. Not just because they were ill. In China, plenty of people wore masks regularly, when outside the house, prepandemic. But no impact on illness numbers.

I think maks wearing has its place, but its part of a much bigger puzzle and won't have a huge impact on its own.

RingaRosie I agree if it makes you feel better and you still maintain hygine and distancing, why not wear one?

Shitsgettingcrazy Risk, along with H&S works by looking at numbers and working out risk. Not every, benefit outweighs its risks”
I’m extremely familiar with risk assessment and work in a very highly risk management focussed industry. We are extremely fond of an acronym borrowed from the NCT of all places - BRAN. What are the Benefits, what are the Risks, what happens if we take Action, what if we do Nothing. Reading through the evidence for and against masks, it seems clear to me that the benefits of wearing masks outweighs the risks from wearing them. There will always be people who do not wear them properly, but I think it’s an insult to the average person to say that the majority couldn’t learn the correct way to do it. After all, with clear guidelines most people are finding proper hand washing and social distancing to be well within their abilities.

This is a very simple explanation of mask benefits

I'm going to make something out of an old pink tshirt with hair elastics to loop in place held on by safety pins.

Will take seconds to fold & put together.

I don't get why people seem to think that putting a mask on seems to deactivate the part of someone's brain that says ah, best keep washing my hands and maintaining social distancing. Maybe there's more to cotton in terms of brain control than we thought. Or maybe it's worth a go because there seems to be research indicating that they are beneficial.

if it makes you feel better .... the whole idea is that it does very little for the wearer, but the wearer is protecting everyone else from the possibility that they are an asymptomatic carrier. It would make me feel better if everyone else was wearing one. I’m not really sure what kind of sociopath thinks that it’s ok to think ‘it doesn’t protect me, only everyone else, so I won’t wear one.’

backinthebox I think you will find most people want them, because they think its protects themselves.

That's the point. Peolle don't really understand why some countries are wearing them.

Anyone involved in risk assessment that thinks people adhere to instruction well, obviously hasn't worked enough on the field.

There's some evidence masks may help. There's no conclusive evidence. And human complacency always has to be taken into account.

Its like the pill. In lab tests it 99% effective. Sustainably lower in RL. Except with covid, that few percent, not doing it properly can impacts hundreds

I wouldn't trust anything the government tells us either. They keep changing their opinions. I'm certain a few years back, certain female members of the community were compared to letterboxes for covering their faces, laws In France banning women from wearing their masks for their own personal reasons. They were so against it. Now, in the name of survival masks are recommended! Suddenly, we are being told to make our own! Don't trust the government, do what you think will keep you safe.

Cant believe it now. 2 days later my post about wearing masks was deleted and now here we go everyone will be wearing them. Glad we bought our reusable masks 3months ago

For those saying its not difficult to learn how to use them properly.

Calander has just interviewed a carer with a medical mask pulled down to her chin and onto her neck, whilst she was interviewed. This is someone who should know how to use them, will have had more information than an info graphic and still forgot.

Except with covid, that few percent, not doing it properly can impacts hundreds

But in regards to wearing masks which protect those around you, even if people misuse them and render them a few percent less effective, surely that's better than wearing nothing?

@Bounceyflouncey it depends if they use it properly, and stick to hygine guidance as well.

It may help a small amount. It may not if people keep doing things like pulling them down onto their chin/neck, touching it, not taking it off correctly, not washing reusable ones etc.

Like I said, I think there could be a place for them, but as a small part of the whole puzzle.

I'm interested in the idea they can be made out of t-shirts - I read 100% cotton in two layers, but T-shirt's are a particularly stretchy kind of cotton would it not have (tiny) holes when stretched?
I had also read like a pp that tea towel material was more effective in trials, but harder to breath through (which might make people take them off).

ravenmum in your picture, the mask at the top, is that one that healthcare workers would need?

Wearing a mask on the Tube on a hot day, it would be damp very quickly.

Glad I’m not the only one laughing about the facial recognition point!

The govt have always said the same thing about masks. You have just not listened properly OP. They are not effective for protecting you from getting the disease the right ones can only help prevent you spreading it and can make things worse for the wearer if not worn correctly - trapping moisture and virus etc. I noticed first hand today several very smug mask wearers in Sainsbury’s who kept ignoring social distancing as though they were immune because they were wearing one. If you have a mask keep the fuck away from me please!!!

I don't get why people seem to think that putting a mask on seems to deactivate the part of someone's brain that says ah, best keep washing my hands and maintaining social distancing.

Yup. Stinks of the Nudge Unit.

www.bi.team/our-work/covid-19/

How many of these names will be mentioned as SAGE members in the eventual inquiry?

www.bi.team/about-us/our-people/

How to make a non-medical facemask (no sewing)
[[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/06/how-to-make-no-sew-face-mask-coronavirus
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/06/how-to-make-no-sew-face-mask-coronavirus]]

Shitsgettingcrazy ”I think you will find most people want them, because they think its protects themselves.” you say this with the authority of some who has evidence of this. What source are you citing?

As for this “Anyone involved in risk assessment that thinks people adhere to instruction well, obviously hasn't worked enough on the field.” I’ll take my 2 decades in aviation, along with all the numerous training courses and annual refreshers in safety, risk management, human behaviour, etc and put it back in the box. I work in an industry where it’s essential we persuade the great ignorant public (as you seem to think they are) to follow our instructions even in the face of immediate adversity. In spite of the fact that most travellers seem to ignore safety briefings, and every evacuation video has at least one person dragging their wheelie bag, you’d be amazed just how many people, when the shit hits the fan, listen to, understand and act on the instructions if they are given with authority. So far authoritative instructions on hand washing backed up by amusing videos on social media have changed the way people wash their hands. We stand 2m apart in the shopping queue. We don’t go out - even people like my mum who initially ranted that no virus would stop her going to the pub on quiz night! People mostly do comply. To suggest that it is not worth putting into place strategies that could reduce transmission because some people will not do it properly and an even smaller number will not comply at all is foolish and shortsighted. I’ve seen mask wearing by the general public in place in countries where it is compulsory and guess what? Everyone wears a mask.

Going back to my BRAN analysis - what happens if we all Act and wear a mask, and what happens if we do Nothing? Looking at other countries wrt mask wearing, doing nothing is just allowing us to spread the virus around. There are lots of things the UK needs to improve to catch up with other countries - testing, track and trace, we are underperforming in all of these. A many pronged attack is needed to enable us to return to some semblance of the new normal. We should be doing everything we can.

Non medical masks for the general public are likely better than nothing but they don't protect the wearer they protect those around them. So if everyone was to wear some sort of face covering and transmission was lessened then that would be a good thing I would have thought?

Trying again

Is that standard blue mask, the top one in ravenmum picture, should I be leaving those for essential workers to buy?

If anyone knows the answer, I’d be v grateful, thank you.

🎤 bring on the dancing nurses
Feckless and not alone
Shiver and say
The words
EVERY LIE YOU’VE HEARD

(Now the Boris Johnson mantra)

First I’m gonna make it
Then I’m gonna break it till it falls apart🎤

Because this is how you behave after a landslide election victory.🤷🏻‍♀️

Sorry, wrong thread!

you say this with the authority of some who has evidence of this. What source are you citing?

The numerous threads here. All the discussions on TV with medical experts pointing out that wearing isn't about not catching it. Its about not spreading it. Yes I believe the majority of the general public think its about it protecting themselves.

I’ll take my 2 decades in aviation, along with all the numerous training courses and annual refreshers in safety, risk management, human behaviour, etc and put it back in the box. I work in an industry where it’s essential we persuade the great ignorant public (as you seem to think they are) to follow our instructions even in the face of immediate adversity. In spite of the fact that most travellers seem to ignore safety briefings, and every evacuation video has at least one person dragging their wheelie bag, you’d be amazed just how many people, when the shit hits the fan, listen to, understand and act on the instructions if they are given with authority.

And yet you can't tell the difference between crisis.

Yes, in imminent danger, people are more likely to follow instruction for short periods.

When there's danger that's not immediate and over a prolonged period, people relax and forget to follow specific instruction.

As I noted, a crer on TV with a mask pulled down to their chin/neck area to be interviewed. They have been trained. They can follow instruction, however over time people become complacent and forget basic instructions.

A poster here admitted to doing it herself.

You Bran assessment does make sense because no one is suggesting we do nothing.

@LilacTree1 The UK hasn't issued any recommendations yet, but the German government is specifically saying that people on the street should use the bottom left type of mask (home-made). The other two are medical masks. The top left type is a surgical mask which protects other people around you, and the bottom right type is a filtering mask that protects you.