The hospital I work in is so quiet

[QuietHospital]

London hospital.
Half empty. Some wards have less than a handful of patients, some wards are closed. Most staff have been moved to wards so are falling over selves. While their regular work goes undone.
A&E very quiet. I’ve sent patients there who are seen immediately. The heart attacks, strokes and appendicitis cases are presenting too late. People with covid are waiting too long to present. If you get breathless then for goodness sake come in. I’m so cross at the initial advice to stay home until struggling.
Had a look through covid ward lists and vast majority patients are aged over 70. Hardly any patients under 60, those who are have underlying health problems for the most part. Lots more men than women affected.
It’s just a snapshot but echoed by colleagues in other hospitals.
I think we can / should start to move back to normal life soon for the well young people among us. I fear for the short and longer term economic hit. It’s crazy to have all these young well people furloughed or made redundant.

What about younger people with TREATABLE cancer who are being denied that treatment??

Any loss of life is unacceptable. Every person who dies as a result of this - directly or indirectly - is someone's family member, friend, colleague. By far the majority of us are loved and will be missed. I am not sure we can go down the route of saying 'we'll just treat the young ones because they might not struggle in quite the same way as the old ones'. We particularly can't say that when we've seen people aged 100 plus leave hospital after having recovered from Covid-19. We should value all lives. I don't want to be someone who only values young lives.

well last Tuesdays figures 778, so it would be rational to suppose after another week of lockdown that the figure would be lower instead of higher 873 is higher by nearly 100, do you not agree?

Certainly, but there was an enormous lag over the weekend - even accounting for the normal weekend lag.

How do the numbers work daily surely it takes time from each death to identify what each person died off? Are the numbers a couple of days after the deaths?

Some specialties are quiet at the moment, because they mostly see patients with non life threatening conditions. Those departments are only seeing emergencies and patients at high risk of deterioration. Medium risk patients may be seen remotely or telephoned etc. All ‘routine’ low risk patient appointments are on hold, until the risks ( ie of asymptomatc covid 19 in being transmitted to staff and patients) are less worrying. For instance a relative needs some biopsies done on a couple of worrying areas on the scans done just before the lockdown. It’s a worry but the decision was made that the risk of waiting (whilst otherwise healthy ) was lower than the risk of getting started on treatment ( due to the possible need for treatments that will impair immune function).
Many clinics are being set up with remote technology- so there are a lot of things going on - swimming madly under the surface so to speak- to get the rest of the NHS able to function safely again - it is after all likely This virus will affect us and the way we work into the future.

@Thighmageddon cancer treatment has not been stopped for patients who could not be reasonably delayed. The balance of treatment versus delaying abs risk of covid has been assessed on av individual basis. Radiotherapy/chemotherapy/ surgery and diagnostics are still going ahead in my trust. Cancers depts are busiest after intensive care.

justasking111 - the figures are all delayed anyway, so many of those deaths reported today will actually have occurred the previous week or even further back.

We won't be able to see a clear pattern - unlike other countries who report deaths properly - until months later.

And those stats don't include deaths at home or in care homes yet, either. They're all being hidden to disguise the fact that the UK currently has the worst per capita mortality rates from coronavirus of any country in the world - we only have just under half the US deaths but under a fifth of their population.

Are the numbers a couple of days after the deaths?

Yes. Sometimes they're weeks behind!

Well of course @effingterrified we cannot end lockdown today and I have not seen anyone suggesting it on this thread. To be honest I think you are posting on the wrong forum, mumsnet are cautious about their, parents, children, in fact all families. So you are either unable to read a thread correctly or being mischievous.

www.downsmail.co.uk/news_sport/News/CORONAVIRUS_Maidstone_Leisure_Centre_Covid_treatment_centre_closes/

This was a Covid hub that was set up 2 weeks ago lots of fuss etc for suspected patients to go there. Now closed because wasn’t used.

My friends son is in hospital now icu, nowt to do with CV but added to their terror is that he will come down with this too.

@Coffeeandbeans wasn’t it was good we were prepared?

www.thecollegefix.com/epidemiologist-coronavirus-could-be-exterminated-if-lockdowns-were-lifted/?fbclid=IwAR0MG5_o1myA3m0pco3hN8gUZzAyw5kd3ZAZExAm3Z31ff6OxfzFaK0DMGg Perhaps this is relevant?

justasking111 - you seem unable to read the OP.

The OP was suggesting that lockdown should end asap. Read her last paragraph.

By the way, as you well know, I never used the word "today" so don't invent strawmen.

And if you or anyone wants to take a sick relative with cancer to A&E, that's up to them. I won't be taking any very sick people with other conditions or illnesses to hospital or indeed out of the house at the moment, but if you feel the risk is justified, then you know your own situation best.

Just properly catching up in the thread.

It's not about Covid trumping other treatments. It's that a non Covid patient would be very vulnerable to catching Covid at hospital. They could also be unknowingly infected with it - and risk infecting the whole ward, patients and staff. That's the impossible situation. What can we do? All we can do is continue our efforts to contain it as much as possible so that we can then start on the backlog of non Covid cases once it is safe to do so. Do people want to see what happens if we continued as normal with non Covid procedures - when a patient or staff member infects that full hospital? We're up against a highly contagious deadly virus.

Shocking but unsurprising to hear of the government sock puppets. Like others I ws surprised to see the OP of this thread. Especially as they say they're in London which is still seeing hundreds of deaths daily - and that's without including the out if hospital deaths.

There is a video at the bottom of the arrival

the anonymous MN posters claiming coincidentally on the same day this story comes out that lockdown should end as everything is fine in the NHS

NO-ONE is claiming that ‘everything is fine in the NHS.’ Jesus, this is exhausting. Please stop this ridiculous exaggeration. There’s a serious discussion to he had here and you’ve done quite a bit along the way to derail it.

Maybe he is right on this. Maybe. But he’s made the assertion without offering up sufficient evidence yet. I’m not going to trust anyone who excuses that kind of anti-Semitism without a bloody good reason.

And of course the conspiracy-vultures will run with it. And you’ve rushed to put a discussion on here by regular posters together with it. Stick to the discussion at hand.

I am not being "mischievous" - that could not be further from the truth.

I am concerned that a government led by people who have stated support for eugenics are trying to end the lockdown too soon, which if achieved will inevitably lead to a second wave as bad or worse than the first.

I do not see anything "mischievous" about wishing to avoid great loss of life that would be the result of ending lockdown too soon.

I’m not sure you can compare this Tuesday to last Tuesday figures because last weekend was the Easter weekend and surely that distorted figures?

@justasking111 I'm sorry to hear about your friend's son. I think you're in one of the less affected parts of the UK? Is he in the same area? Even if not, precisely because the hospitals aren't full, there should be a lower risk of him catching it. Because of the risks of a full or normal capacity hospital at the moment, they're only admitting the most urgent non Covid cases and discharging as soon as safe to do so - for safety reasons to limit the spread of Covid. He should try not to worry. Hard not to, I know.

noraclavicle - I find it exhausting that you keep ignoring the OP and all the many posts on here that clearly state that "I think we can / should start to move back to normal life soon" and "London hospital.
Half empty. Some wards have less than a handful of patients, some wards are closed."

And similar posts.

I don't, frankly, trust you as you - unlike John O'Connell, who provides clear evidence that we can all read - all I have is your (and some other anonymous posters') assertions, with no proof whatsoever.

Forgive me if I will continue to be sceptical about what I read. Including your posts.

Especially your posts.

The last paragraph of the OP says I think we can / should start to move back to normal life soon for the well young people among us.

That’s arguing for a limited lifting of current conditions, not a wholesale lifting of lockdown. And the rest of the OP doesn’t insinuate ‘everything is fine in the NHS.’

Now many of us may well not agree with that - I don’t think I do at this stage, though when the OP meant by ‘soon’ I can’t say. That doesn’t mean we can’t have an adult discussion about improving outcomes by making sure people with Covid get timely treatment - as they seem to have elsewhere in Europe, or about the rise in deaths outside hospital.

Thigh “ was under the impression that the medical team around any cancer patient was risk assessing the patient to achieve the best outcome, not arbitrarily stopping all oncology treatment.”

It’s very hard to know. One contact who had treatment stopped, others are going for the same treatment on a place that’s been requisitioned for it, so not a hospital. I think it’s been stopped because he’s 75.

The other is a college student. If she went back to college, then surely she should have her treatment before October?

Never mind watching grass grow, it’s like listening to cancer grow.

@effingterrified

So much love for the lockdown on Mumsnet. Anyone suggesting things could be improved or v rationalised gets shot down.

effingterrified Hopefully the government will remember the tortoise won the race. Relevant to the economy as much as saving lives. A premature end to lockdown and the consequent second would cause far greater long-term economic damage than the short-term disruption of a slightly longer initial lockdown. The economy won't be healthy or have any chance of recovery if we had widespread illness and deaths across the UK.

Yes, I put my hands up, You got me. I’m in the pay of the Tories. And Israel too for that matter. Couldn’t be more obvious. I climb out of the lizard suit occasionally to post for private gain.

Get - a - grip