A list of the systemic failings that have led us here

[Tonkerbea]

Because I'm angry and bored.

I'll start with:

Why did it take so long for us to start sourcing extra ventilators?

Why was/is our capacity for testing so paltry?

Why were people discharged into care homes who were still symptomatic?

Why did Cheltenham go ahead?

The arrogant 'othering' of the Chinese experience (that could never happen to us / SARS, swine flu and bird flu came to nothing / X many doe of the flu annually) - refusal to believe it, some sort of a belief that a penchant for roast beef and builder's tea conferred immunity

THIS

Why would they only test people who'd been to a hotspot or had direct contact with someone already tested as positive? At the time, there were hundreds of people reporting symptoms, and, OK, some of them would have been other things but surely, better safe than sorry?

Why have they been so vague over tests as a whole?

The government's handling of this has been characterised by ministers saying they're going to do this or they're aiming to do that but either it hasn't happened, or it happened far too late.

We could have used Italy's data to stay ahead of the curve but all the time we were lagging behind it, chasing after it to contain things after the damage had been done.

People were discharged to care homes because they didn't need to be in hospital. It was bed blocking so they were discharged.

@LilacTree1

For your last point - because more than 50% of deaths 'with COVID' globally are in people 80+ with multiple co-morbidities. Not least the underlying health condition of 'being aged 80+'.

So no-one can confidentally say they died 'of COVID'

Also frontline and I agree w @Salmonpasta 100%

Brought us where?

We have enough ventilators. People who would have survived aren't dying just because a ventilator wasn't available. The NHS is not overwhelmed at the moment, it is coping. Which was the aim all along and suggests that we locked down at the right time.

Meanwhile, when we start to lift the lockdown there will be enough immunity in the population to slow the transmission of the virus. Whereas in countries that locked down really early there won't be any (or very little) immunity and the virus will potentially be free to rip through the country once again, possibly at a worse time of year.

Yes PPE is an issue but that is a global issue.

All these threads bring up Germany - that's fair enough, they are doing a good job, however they are pretty much the only country in the EU which is doing well, and many of the others are pretty unhappy that they haven't shared that good fortune.

Letting all those flights back in to the UK after Feb half term

This is a good one as well, not that it is well though out, but that it completely misses the point that everyone would have had to come back anyway. The bigger issue was all the twits who continued to go on holiday in March and got stuck, and some of them are still there!

Why do we not have a massive store of PPE, being used and replenished over time to keep it in date? With military logistics to get it to where and when it is needed.

I had assumed that the pandemic preparations would include this.

Oh, I forgot, this country doesn't have any pandemic preparations, because we assume it will never happen.

Choccy, I think their argument is it goes out of date. But this is stupid considering it’s being reused.

It was my birthday Feb half term, family couldn’t understand why I didn’t want to do anything, but anyone could see what was coming.

Salmon, if no one can say it confidently- which I know, dad was HCP - then that’s even more reason we shouldn’t be locked down.

@Choccyp1g

I work across 2 big NHS trusts. We had enough PPE but it was depleted by staff stealing it. Along with cleaning supplies and painkillers (that can only be staff with a professional registration as they're the only ones with keys to the drugs trolleys).

From what i've heard, we weren't the only NHS trusts that had to send out an email saying if caught, individuals could be sacked for gross misconduct and the Police involved for theft.

We were also told not to disclose our trusts pandemic measures, updates or the situations i've described to the media or on social media but I don't think they could hide it if a member of the public requested that info under FOI if you'd like to do so.

But it's not just Germany doing well, most of Eastern Europe and the Balkans also have low death tolls -- and their lockdowns are more severe than in the UK.

Poland has had a few hundred deaths, with a very strict lockdown. That's a country of 38 million (about 8 million less than Spain). They put in a lockdown similar to what the UK has now at a point when they only had 9 deaths (the UK did not lock down until it had several hundred). They've also completely closed their borders. There are fines for breaking quarantine.

Obviously we don't know what will happen in the long run, but I don't understand this argument that the government had no way of knowing that it should shut down earlier, or that there's no way to bring in more severe restrictions.

Jeremy Hunt not acting on warnings we lacked ppe. Matt Hancock not acting on warnings we make ppe.

Why are 111 etc advising very ill people with breathing difficulties to manage things themselves at home?

Germany seem to be sending folk suspected to have Covid-19 to hospital at an earlier stage for oxygen than the UK and their Covid death rates are far lower.

I realise there are other factors at play too such as better testing in Germany but I do think earlier access to oxygen/ medication/ support would be helpful.

Poland has had a few hundred deaths, with a very strict lockdown. That's a country of 38 million (about 8 million less than Spain). They put in a lockdown similar to what the UK has now at a point when they only had 9 deaths (the UK did not lock down until it had several hundred). They've also completely closed their borders. There are fines for breaking quarantine.

And what is going to happen in Poland when they start opening up again (which they will have to do at some point before a vaccine is available) and there is no or very little immunity amongst the population?

Allowing the Liverpool/Athletico Madrid game go ahead (and not just because we lost!). All those people coming over from Spain must have done some damage.

Why did they turn down ventilators in favour of non tax paying, tory donor, ventilators not made or tested yet, James Dyson?
Why did Matt Hancock say in January we are ready for this virus
I guess for years they have been saying we will build xxxxx houses then build none so its fair that they expect words to not follow with action

Believing (possibly still believing) that severe cases 'only' or 'generally' really endanger the elderly, smokers and people with underlying conditions, and therefore encouraging complacency around children and the under 60s. While that looked as if it was truer for China, was it really the case by the Spain and Europe wave?
Oh, and the UK 'masks are useless' sentiment looks as if it's done a U-turn, too.

Sorry, meant to write Spain and Italy wave.

Poland has said they will reopen very gradually and see how things go -- some restrictions are likely to stay in place for months (as they are in Germany). So I imagine it will be like anywhere else, trying to prevent any spikes. The UK will also have this problem, most of the population (as far as they know) is not immune, even with the huge number of cases.

Milk this is what a lot of people here in Germany are saying, and what my DH has heard directly from a couple doctors -- that having all this hospital capacity and admitting people earlier, putting them in ICU earlier, has kept the death toll down.

One of my former colleagues in the UK had a really terrible case of the virus, he felt for two days that he might die as it was so hard to breathe, and he was still not admitted to hospital (in London), it was terrible. Thankfully he pulled through. But there have been a number of stories in the media about people calling 111 or trying to go to hospital and not being treated, and then dying.

The UK will also have this problem, most of the population (as far as they know) is not immune, even with the huge number of cases.

No but the more people who have had it, the more immunity there is likely to be and this will slow up the transmission.

Yes, Poland will have to open up very slowly, and who knows what will happen when they do? Just like here. I don't know much about Poland's economy but I know in this country that getting things up and running as far as possible whilst still keeping things manageable for the NHS is essential to ensure that we don't have an economic disaster which could be far more costly than the virus itself.

It is absolutely impossible to know 'who got it right' at this stage which is why threads like this annoy me. At the moment there are enough ventilators for everyone, the NHS is coping, that was the aim - flatten the peak.

Why are 111 etc advising very ill people with breathing difficulties to manage things themselves at home?

^ this

And why couldn’t we test, contact trace and quarantine like South Korea? How many fewer people might have died?