What do shopping cleaners do with the insides of packets?

[Floatyboat]

Just wondering how people that like to clean their shopping deal with things inside the packaging.

Obviously you'd presume tins and cereal etc would not have been contaminated in the last 72 hours but what about other stuff, short shelf life items. Some fruit and veg can be from farm to fork in 48 hours. Bread as well won't have been in the bag for long.

Do you just leave it before opening, cook it all before eating or wash it? But you can't really wash bread.

This has also got me thinking about other things that may have recently touched in non obvious ways.

And with regards to bread: we toast them. We like them toasted or warmed up anyway do it works out great.

I confess i'm not washing or wiping anything.

The only concessions i'm making to the pandemic is only going out of the house once a week (to do the grocery shop. There's 7 of us) observing social distance while i'm in the shop, and using hand gel when i get back in the car after doing it.
That's it.

@Frompcat, It really doesn't work like that. OCD is a neuropsychiatric condition; which certain people are predisposed to- perhaps a few kids who are already predisposed to the condition might develop a contamination obsession but it is not going to lead to a sudden surge in cases.

@Floatyboat- if you want to use bleach for wiping packaging then it's probably best to buy sterilising tablets and follow the instructions for dilution, then you can be sure that it is in the right concentration. I've never used it for fruit and veg but the 'Milton' website says that it's fine to use it for that and then rinse it before eating. I only eat cooked fruit and veg so don't really need to. Part-baked bread is another option if you're worried about bread- the heat of the oven will denature Coronavirus.

@eeeyoresmiles, yes I agree. For most people- a quick wipe of food packaging during a Pandemic is a reasonable precaution; it won't lead to OCD, nor is the behaviour in itself a compulsion- it's an action for a specific purpose.

For some people like me with OCD contamination obsessions focused on viruses (a lot of people with OCD don't have contamination obsessions at all; whilst others with 'contamination' themed OCD worry about becoming contaminated with chemicals/paint/other substances rather than viruses) things are tricky at the moment and it is easy to repeat cleaning behaviours but for most people cleaning is not a compulsion.

Annarosez

I work in the field, and it can absolutely be brought on by environmental events. Please don't peddle nonsense.

So if you open the butter, say, and spread it on toast, you'd always then wash your hands before eating the toast?

Yes, I always wash my hands before eating.

Surely you'd have to do it more than just before eating? Or are you very careful not to hold the toast while buttering it with the same hand that has touched the butter packaging? Otherwise if you're holding it while buttering it without having washed your hands, you might as well hold it to eat it.

Washing hands before eating or preparing food makes sense - very normal, as you say. Washing hands multiple times while preparing food, because you've touched the outer packaging of an ingredient and you're thinking of it as dangerously dirty even in normal times, and before touching something like the bread, seems a difficult way of doing things. If that's how you do things normally, I'm surprised it isn't much quicker just to clean the outsides of all the packets routinely (pandemic or no pandemic).

DP has grown a second head and one of the cats has doubled in size in a week, but as you can't be too careful, you have to do what you can to eliminate the virus.

All for the greater good.

Surely you'd have to do it more than just before eating? Or are you very careful not to hold the toast while buttering it with the same hand that has touched the butter packaging? Otherwise if you're holding it while buttering it without having washed your hands, you might as well hold it to eat it.

Washing hands before eating or preparing food makes sense - very normal, as you say. Washing hands multiple times while preparing food, because you've touched the outer packaging of an ingredient and you're thinking of it as dangerously dirty even in normal times, and before touching something like the bread, seems a difficult way of doing things. If that's how you do things normally, I'm surprised it isn't much quicker just to clean the outsides of all the packets routinely (pandemic or no pandemic).

This is exactly the sort of faff I am engaging in because I just can't seem to get around to wiping the fridge stuff. I think it would be easier to wipe it but the problem is that you can't be confident you have eliminated any virus on the packaging. This is where we have to accept that it's about reducing and not eliminating risk, if the packaging is wiped and then hands are washed before eating perhaps that is enough reduction, but if not wiped at all then be more careful while prepping food. I don't think DP is really doing anything. He says he is but then he tells me to go away while he is preparing food.

I really should wipe them.

Anyone who is particularly stressing and determined to clean, it's worth noting that the virus can only live a maximum of 72 hours even on the fridge. Even then, it's going to struggle to infect you and of course your packet probably didn't have any virus on out to start with. If you do a big shop every 2-3 weeks and are careful for the first couple of days, everything else is then as safe as normal. Still wash your veg and clean hands after touching raw meat, but at least keep an eye on the date and make sure you relax any stress after a couple of days when remaining fridge stuff, tins, dry food etc are all fine. Lots of fridge food lasts much longer than 3 days. Buy a new butter before the old one runs out and you won't need to clean the butter packages at all for example.
Viruses can theoretically live 2 years frozen, so frozen food packages are excluded from this helpful info, sorry.

Surely you'd have to do it more than just before eating? Or are you very careful not to hold the toast while buttering it with the same hand that has touched the butter packaging? Otherwise if you're holding it while buttering it without having washed your hands, you might as well hold it to eat it.

Washing hands before eating or preparing food makes sense - very normal, as you say. Washing hands multiple times while preparing food, because you've touched the outer packaging of an ingredient and you're thinking of it as dangerously dirty even in normal times, and before touching something like the bread, seems a difficult way of doing things. If that's how you do things normally, I'm surprised it isn't much quicker just to clean the outsides of all the packets routinely (pandemic or no pandemic).

That is not how i do things normally, or now. You seem to have added an awful lot of stages onto me washing my hands before I eat.

Fuck it! You cannot get covid 19 from food. It is a respiratory disease.

I’ve gotten it in both Sainsburys and Asda recently @shinynewapple2020

@homemadecommunistrussia
Of course you can! The government says the risk is small but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
If someone in the supermarket coughed in their hands and then picked up a tin of beans, the virus is then on that tin. If I was to then pick up the tin and then scratch my nose, I could be infected. It's not rocket science.

@Frompcat, my understanding (I have had the condition since the age of 7 and have seen multiple Psychologists and Psychiatrists) is that the condition can be triggered by a wide variety of stressful life events; in combination with a biological predisposition to the condition but that it is not 'caused' by events that are specifically related to the obsession. Most sufferers seem to have multiple 'themes' of OCD- I have problems with anxiety and Executive Function deficits; which contribute to a predisposition to the condition.

Also if you are a Psychiatrist or Psychologist I don't really think that you should say that my post was 'peddling nonsense'.

I am quite a particular person with high standards of cleaning etc. But I'm not washing my shopping. For 2 reasons. Firstly, we have to wash our hands singing happy birthday twice. How long would it take to thoroughly clean for example, a carton of milk, before you could be confident to have killed Coronavirus? Running a cloth over each item you buy is not going to really be enough - if you take the view it is necessary in the first place. Secondly, the long term impact of rubbing chemicals over your food products seems risky too. For those using Milton... Baby bottles have to be left floating in the stuff for ages to be sterile! My natural instinct (fear) says to clean everything. My brain says it's futile unless you spend hours doing it, and you may be doing other types of harm rubbing chemicals over food products. As others have stated, the aim is to REDUCE the risk of contracting the virus. There is definitely a slippery slope towards OCD. Compulsive behaviour can involve, e.g. cleaning something so you 'feel' it's right. Even if logically not necessary or actually making a difference.

@MRex

Is that so about items in the fridge? It still degrades within 72 hours?

I though maybe the fridge was like a slightly less bad version of the freezer but if not that is helpful.

Just really get real

@Inkpaperstars - SARS and MERS both survived 72 hours in the fridge and 2 years in the freezer. This virus might actually be more fragile at low temperatures, but it's impossible to know how long it survives in freezers without tests being run. Just because a virus is detectable though, you can't necessarily catch it at that point. The chances are that there's no virus on any of your shopping to start with. Even if a person who's unknowingly infectious is packing the shopping, they only touch each item for a moment, with any tiny amount of virus immediately starting to degrade. The immediate risk is the shopping bags, so wash hands and surfaces after you've got everything unpacked. With packets, after just a day there's so little risk it's really not worth worrying about.

Clymene Take off and nuke it from orbit, you mean?

You can get it from packets and tins, but not from eating contaminated food.

At least I know now why I cannot find Milton to sterilise my baby’s bottles. Thanks to all you idiots cleaning food with it.

So if someone in the shop picks up the open loaf of bread from the bakery and then puts it back, or the person preparing your take away pizza sneezes on it, you cannot catch the virus? Food can still transport it like any other object can.

Sorry, what are we talking about here? People are cleaning food? Mumsnet is another world. You’ve probably all had Coronavirus anyway and not even realised. 🙄

I don't wash my stuff, but I made a deal with a demon to keep me and mine safe from it. Seems like a good trade off since I'm lazy and also offers immunity from all types of transmission from food items to neighbours outside the fence. Plus I can still get takeaways.