Overweight risk exaggerated?

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Two facts:

1. 60% of CV-19 patients in intensive care in hospitals are overweight. (NHS)

1. 63.8% of adults in England are overweight. (Public Health England)

As the overall proportion of those seriously ill and overweight is lower than the overall proportion of the general public that is overweight, does that therefore mean that being overweight actually helps protect you if you become ill from CV-19?

Many morbidly obese people have very limited mobility and would therefore not be going out and about picking up the infection.

@Dyrne I think this has brought into the stark contrast the risk of weight in terms of all of those things (COVID, stroke, heart disease etc).

I had also never heard about sugar and obesity putting your body in a state of inflammation before (probably not described that well!). It makes sense, and obviously isn't good!

I think I read (not sure where so can't provide a link), that the levels of peoples weight in ICU match that spread of peoples weight in general population so risk isn't clear. But, (again, happy to be corrected by a medic) that being on the larger side provides a better outcome if needing to be ventilated?

The survey linked above and given by a pp as a screenshot shows that if people with COVID in ICU 73.5% were overweight or obese ( BMI >25) which compares to 63% in the UK generally.

The figures also show that, of those in ITU, people who are morbidly obese are more likely to die than people with BMIs of less than 25 with the risk increasing with increasing BMI.

A question for those who have said this has spurred them on to lose weight - why this?

I've been obese a short time - since DS was born at the end of 2018. I've already lost over 2st since he was born but gained about 4st during the pregnancy so still a long way to go.

I was slowly losing weight and was hoping to get down to below 12st (ie out of the obese category at my height) by the end of 2020. I figured if I returned to a healthy weight in the next few years then this short period of being overweight/obese wouldn't do me any real harm in the long-run. I'm in my early/mid thirties so not likely to keel over from a heart attack any time soon.

But now there is an immediate threat. I want to be out of the obese category when I get this, and ideally out of the overweight category too. I reckon I could be out of the obese category by the end of May if I can stick to this. I am having another go at Slimming World and the weight is coming off. I tried it when DS was about 5 months old and still EBF and it was a total disaster because I was so hungry, but it's going better so far (10lbs down in the last month or so since lockdown started). I used to low-carb but can't do it right now as I'm still breastfeeding.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s good that people are trying now to lose weight and any motivation someone personally has is fine; but I’m genuinely curious as an obese person myself - what is it about COVID-19 that scares you compared to cancer, stroke, heart disease etc?

Ive lost 10lbs duringthe last 5 weeks and worked out that if I loose a further 2 stone I will no longer be obese. Its given me a fright and it's all encompassing are the main reasons. Risk with other diseases seems more distant. Also, I'm finding it much easier in lockdown. My access to food is restricted, I cant manage any secret snacking. I've also got loads of time to excercise.

Haven’t read the whole thread, but one factor in all this is proning.
If you need ventilated for Covid, the best way to optimise your V/Q matching and lung mechanics is to ventilate you lying on your front (face down). Morbidly obese people in that position tend to splint their diaphragm with all the fat, and it may be impossible to achieve adequate ventilation at all.

That, combined with the strain on their heart from the obesity, and their higher risk of comorbidities, like diabetes and hypertension, means they are at increased risk of a poor outcome.
Being just a few pounds overweight on the other hand, can be protective, giving a little reserve of fat and energy to get through the catabolic effects of the illness, whereas an undernourished or emaciated patient would be weak and struggling. I lost 3lbs in the first 3 days, a rate of loss that could be critical in a frail skinny old person.

@Seventytwoseventythree I get very frustrated with a friend of mine who is constantly in hospital having IV antibiotics with what is clearly and obesity related condition.... She has a BMI of about 40, and all your hear is "oh dear I'm is hospital again!!"

I’m aware I need to lose weight, and I am trying. Unlike what some of the posters here seem to think I’m not labouring under the impression that pizza or chocolate is healthy for me hmm.

I was not trying to say you knew it was healthy. What I was trying to say was that there is an attitude that exists where people thing "what would life be like without chocolate?"

I hear it all the time when people are asked to give up junk food. They don't think that it is worth it because they aren't making the connection from the 'dreamy' adverts about chocolate to actual health risks (not weight and vanity)

Calorie counting is how the junk food industry rely on us still consuming their products.

If we actually all knew and understood that 300 calories from a chocolate bar does not have the same effect on our body as 300 calories from a piece of chicken, we would all be much healthier (chocolate raises insulin massively, chicken doesn't) and so with the horrendous and inaccurate narrative about calories being the only thing that matters in being healthy and losing weight we all continue to squeeze in a bit of junk food into our daily lives.

I agree @hamster

Calories are ultimately important but calorie balance should be the end result of a healthy diet not the sole determinant of the diet.

I agree @hamstersarse

Calorie focus is such outdated thinking when it comes to health and weight. If someone mainly just calorie counted in an attempt to get healthy and lose weight it’s meaningless unless they address inflammation. You could eat only 1500 calories per day of utter junk. You might lose weight but you wouldn’t be healthy.

I also agree with a pp who states that there is a scary mentality in the UK of ‘life without cake/sugar/pizza/insert junk food of choice, isn’t worth living’. A family member of mine is addicted to sugar and tries constantly to push it on my children when we’re at theirs. If I object I’m told (in a jokey way) to ‘get a life’ and that I’m too strict. It drives me nuts.

I pray that this situation wakes up some people to real food, less utter crap/junk food and means our health service can get on with treating conditions that aren’t related to the preventable metabolic and inflammatory illnesses that are so prevalent today.

I am very aware of the risks of being overweight or obese, but I think we need to be very careful in how we approach this. I am not saying anyone should give up, no matter how hard it is to get to or stay at a healthy weight the work has to be done. I am just suggesting that if people don't consider the full picture they will continue to be confused when telling people to lose weight doesn't work.

I have struggled with yoyoing weight all my adult life. I cannot tell you the amount of times I have got down to the lowest end of the recommended bmi range for my height only to start gaining again. Many overweight people have successfully lost all the weight many times.

The trouble is that mental health, physical health and medications do play a big role for many people. Improving the treatment of mental health problems, chronic pain etc is part of the issue. It isn't just about knowing what you should eat or do.

Also once you have gained and lost weight, maintaining that lower weight again is much harder due to changes in muscle tissue, changes in metabolism and in hormones affecting hunger.

Basically if you have always maintained a healthy weight, imagine that you are going to be much hungrier, but able to consume fewer calories and unable to burn off as many through the same exercise. Then add into that the fact that some will still be coping with the severe mental or physical problems that contributed to weight gain in the first place.

Hopefully medical interventions to ease some of these challenges will emerge, but in the meantime let's be aware of the struggle for many (not all), and that prevention is much much easier than cure.

@hamstersarse you sound very knowledgeable and I've appreciated your contributions to the thread - thank you.

Sorry if I have missed it, but does anyone have a link to data (non anecdotal) about the raised risk with Covid from being overweight. I am not doubting it, makes sense to me, just would like to see something a bit more detailed.

@Inkpaperstars from www.icnarc.org/About/Latest-News/2020/04/10/Report-On-5578-Patients-Critically-Ill-With-Covid-19

"Also once you have gained and lost weight, maintaining that lower weight again is much harder due to changes in muscle tissue, changes in metabolism and in hormones affecting hunger."

Is that true? Could you explain how that works @Inkpaperstars

@Floatyboat

To be honest I cannot remember the full explanation but yes, I think I have some bookmarked medical publications on this somewhere. It may take me a while to locate them but when I do I will get you a link.

Thanks Panic

@Floatyboat when people lose weight they tend to lose fat and muscle, and when they gain it back they mostly gain fat, so yo-yo dieting can lead to much lower muscle mass and a lower base metabolic rate than others who have not yo-yo'ed. I am trying to do some weight training to avoid this.

I seem to remember it is more complex than that Panic, actual changes in the nature of your muscle tissue occur which mean fewer calories burned by the same quantity of muscle. I think some doctors suggest people require about twenty percent fewer calories to maintain a weight after loss than if they had never gained.

Ps, but yes you are right weight training is good

The fat, lazy, uneducated crap wears thin you know. Some people could do with admitting they're just very fortunate, and not actually superior beings.

I am obese, my BMI is 46

I had Glandular Fever when I was 21. I was very ill for a year. Eventually a new Doctor did some other tests on me & discovered I had fatty liver disease (I was 7.5stone wet at that stage & didn't drink much. Diet was pretty healthy I stopped all alcohol for 2 years anyway) at that time the link to diabetes wasn't known/common knowledge/whatever. They said the FLD was a result of a virus&/or the GF. I had frequent liver/blood tests for a very long time my GGT was the one that was a long way from normal, but other results were pretty dire too. Overtime they all got nearer the acceptable range.

I had gained a lot of weight & tried various things to lose it.

But I have never been right since (51 now, so 30 years)

I was diagnosed as a T2 diabetic in 2013,(but they think I'd had it for a long time & one Dr has said he thinks it's since the FLD when
I was 21).

I control it through diet & exercise. I'm vegetarian and so eating really really low carb is very difficult (lots more carbs in vegetables then meat). I don't eat eggs, but I do eat dairy.

I usually eat 16:8 or OMAD & incorporate some full fast days.

Normally I walk 4-6 miles a day & I use a small local gym for weights etc

I have read everything by Mosley Taubes Fung & a variety of others and I 'believe' in low carbing & it definitely controls my diabetes,

However, I CANNOT lose weight

I eat:

Vegetables (above ground,low carb ones)
Some soy/tofu products
Total yogurt
Butter
Cheese
Cream
Almonds & a few other nuts occasionally

I drink coffee with cream
I rarely drink alcohol & when I do it's dry white wine

No processed carbs
No potatoes/rice/pasta/bread etc
No fruit
No 'junk'
No 'sweets'

I control my diabetes without medication, but I CANNOT lose weight.

I'm no saint, I do occasionally 'fall off the wagon' (at Easter I had a small Cadbury Easter Egg (size of a toddlers hand) & one hot cross bun') but I was straight back onto my usual regime.

I drink lots of water.

🤷🏻‍♀️WTAF am I supposed to do about being obese that I'm not doing.

I do not understand how people claim to 'cut out sugar' for a few weeks & the weight drops off them. I have nothing left to 'cut out' of my diet unless you want to take the broccoli & Courgettes too...

Oh and a few years ago I did try the 'carb refuel'. 🤦🏻‍♀️Let's just say, although it was nice to eat 'normally' again, it didn't help my weight OR my diabetes 🙅🏻‍♀️

Are you sure you do not have auto-immune response to foods @IncrediblySadToo?

Also, why are you vegetarian? Is this an ethical choice? It's unclear where you are getting your protein?

In your case op I think it might be helpful to calculate calories for a couple of weeks to see where you're at and where you could improve things.

The obvious suggestion would be to have black coffee. Do you have pulses?

Not op, pp

Incredibly, I've got a friend like you. She's quite tall as well. But she literally cannot lose weight. She's in her 50s as well. She's VERY fit, too, a serious hillwalker. She's overweight, but honestly, she just does not lose weight. But of course, on MN there's no such thing.