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Can employee refuse to come to work

179 replies

NameChange1998 · 15/04/2020 15:29

I own a small veterinary practice. 6 employees including myself (Me, one vet, one nurse, one admin, one receptionist, one receptionist/ lay nurse). Employee in question is our vet nurse.

We have to stay open to see urgent cases. We've also now been told we can do some vaccinations.

Employee in question is saying she's not willing to "put her life at risk" by allowing clients on the premises.

She's a key member of staff and can't furlough her.

Can she refuse to come to work?

She has no health conditions and lives alone. She isn't responsible for any others.

She's making me feel unreasonable by expecting her to come to work. We're doing everything we can with regards to social distancing and keeping clients outside. But sometimes they have to come inside.

Just wondering what others thought and perhaps my stress about paying the bills and keeping the place going is stopping me being reasonable.

OP posts:
FluffyBlackPoodle · 15/04/2020 17:29

I think ACAS, to get the legal position clarified, or a solicitor. Mumsnet isn’t a good authority on anything.

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2020 17:36

She either needs to go on unpaid leave while you find a locum, or you need to terminate her employment. She does not have the right to decide not to come to work and still be paid for it. She is being absolutely unreasonable.

Littlemissdaredevil · 15/04/2020 17:37

If she doesn’t come into work when she is able to technically she is in breach of her employment contract. Normally this would be unpaid.

cologne4711 · 15/04/2020 17:37

I can't see the risk for her if she has no known health conditions. People drop their pets at the door and presumably they pay by card?

I'd put her on unpaid leave while looking for someone else who is less silly.

Imboredinthehouse · 15/04/2020 17:40

@Gammeldragz I wouldn’t mind the odd day but other members of the same department haven’t been asked and I now have only 10 days AL left for the whole rest of the year! (Once I go back next wk)
I was unaware that I was the only person being ‘advised’ to do this & it has been strongly hinted at that I should extend leave further. If there isn’t work they should make someone else go off, but thanks for the info.

Chloemol · 15/04/2020 17:42

There’s plenty of ppe, even if people go into the premises you can probably observe social distancing, lots of places manage this.

If she won’t come in then I would be giving her the option of unpaid leave but those are the two choices.

ElisavetaOfBumsornia · 15/04/2020 17:44

The easiest thing is probably to continue to put up with the complaining.

If she really doesn't want to come in, you cannot furlough her because there is still work for her. If she's no specific medical reason for being off, I'd then suggest she use annual leave and after that, if she's a good employee otherwise, offer a period of unpaid leave if at all possible. As she's been a good employee you might give a few days extra leave in the circumstances, once she's used the existing allocation.

Griselda1 · 15/04/2020 17:45

A local cockapoo FB page has 20 people asking for referrals to cockapoo breeders. They think the time is perfect to get a new puppy and don't see why anyone would tell them otherwise. We all know where these puppies are coming from and why should your employee face this sort of danger as they assure everyone their vets are doing routine vaccinations. Dealing with emergency situations would feel quite different but I can see her point.Gumtree is also full of puppy ads, no better time apparently, isn't everyone at home.
Put everything in writing to your employee whatever your decision is.

PhilCornwall1 · 15/04/2020 17:45

She does not have the right to decide not to come to work and still be paid for it. She is being absolutely unreasonable.

Agreed, just because there is a pandemic going on, if your employer is still up and running and there is work for you to do, you do it. The pandemic doesn't give people the right to choose what they do and expect to keep their job if they decide not to do it, or become a pain in the arse.

SpencerReidsMistress · 15/04/2020 17:48

Yes she can refuse to come to work however if she refuses to come to work then you don't have to pay her. She can take unpaid leave if she wants.

lovelydream · 15/04/2020 17:51

Furlough isn't there for people to take the piss and I would think there will be cases in the future where the government claims back the payments from companies who needlessly furloughed staff
Given that they've already said that the intake of it is 3 times what they expected

Tell her she turns up for work or she has no job

VioletCharlotte · 15/04/2020 17:53

I think in this position you have to offer her the option of unpaid leave if she doesn't want to come into work. Be warned though, that the likelihood is she will get herself signed off with stress.

Mlou32 · 15/04/2020 17:54

YANBU. I would draft a letter saying that you're sorry that she is feeling worried. List everything that you've done to protect employees. Ask if there is anything else that could be done to alleviate her fears. Also state in no uncertain terms that should she be refusing to work under the very reasonable steps that you have taken to protect workers, she will be given notice and her employment will cease.

bluebeck · 15/04/2020 17:56

She does not have the right to decide not to come to work and still be paid for it. She is being absolutely unreasonable.

She absolutely does have this right (assuming OP is in UK and has an absence policy which offers full pay rather than SSP.

If she says she is suffering with poor MH, which the OP herself as already said she thinks may be the case, then of course she has the right to stay at home. This is an employee who hasn't had a day off in 14 years. Imagine OP standing in an employment tribunal saying oh yes, she worked for me for all those years and the one time she needed time off as unfit to work, I sacked her.

I really do hope none of you recommending this course of action are managers Confused

Coyoacan · 15/04/2020 17:58

Yes pets can carry the virus she is not wrong- several has tested positive

My in-house vets say that cats can get Covid but can't pass it on the humans.

Check and see if you can get temporary nurse, OP, because it sounds like she is generally a good employee and should not be fired for just one blip, albeit a serious one.

ACertainSupermarket · 15/04/2020 18:00

Does she go shopping? She would almost certainly be at less risk at work than that, with PPE and well-managed distancing!

bridgetreilly · 15/04/2020 18:04

She absolutely does have this right (assuming OP is in UK and has an absence policy which offers full pay rather than SSP.

If she is signed off sick, fine. She doesn't get to (a) decide that herself or (b) decide not to come in even though she is not unwell. If a doctor agrees that she is not well enough to work, that's different.

forgetthehousework · 15/04/2020 18:05

She's worked for you for 14 years.
She hasn't had a day off sick in that time.
She usually just 'rolls up her sleeves and gets on with it'.
She is scared, anxious and you say she is 'moaning' (but still working).
You are having to ask for advice on how to deal with her.
I'm bloody glad I don't work for you.

bluebeck · 15/04/2020 18:07

If she is signed off sick, fine. She doesn't get to (a) decide that herself

Again, entirely incorrect Bridget

In the UK we can all self certificate for the first week of sickness absence. www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave

TiredofSM · 15/04/2020 18:08

I’d offer her unpaid leave and manage without her.

MintyMabel · 15/04/2020 18:10

I don't see why I should top up her salary and she can't manage on 80%

That’s her choice then, isn’t it.

breakingbetter · 15/04/2020 18:12

I'd say she needs to go on unpaid leave. Can you find someone else to fill on a temp basis?

Also, my vets aren't allowing people in with their pets, would she feel better about that? I do think she's being completely unreasonable though and surely she realises that animals still get sick, just like humans do.

rwalker · 15/04/2020 18:12

Offer her unpaid leave furlough is when business can't trade not when you don't want to work

WillowSummerSloth · 15/04/2020 18:12

I agree she needs to come in. Everyone is scared and anxious right now. I think most of us key workers would love to sit at home with our kids for a few weeks given a choice. I'm a GP and have had a few people asking for sick notes as they don't want to work/ are scared/ have an at risk relative at home. Unfortunately this is not what a sick note is for so we have to decline. I imagine many ITU nurses and doctors are pretty terrified right now (my DH is one) but if I signed them all off sick we'd be pretty screwed!

LatteLoverLovesLattes · 15/04/2020 18:19

I think you need to listen to whatvshes saying.

But occasionally they need to. We don't think it's right having end of life conversations stood outside with everyone listening

Doctors/Nurses are doing that over the phone to relatives, I'm sure you can do it with George the Gerbil.

I'm a MASSIVE. sook, balled shitloads when our hamster died, vet was brilliant. But would I expect all that now, NOPE.

Someone posted the other day about their vet using a longline to PTS their dog so they could be with it in their car.

I suspect you're not doing as much as you could to keep your staff safe.

14 years loyalty, not a day off sick and you're treating her concerns like this. I don't think you're being fair. You criticise her conduct in a crisis, but shitty of you considering she's been good enough to keep on for FOURTEEN YEARS

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