coronavirus do you think it was here in uk in december?

[Whensmydayofftoo]

In mid december my 11 year old ds came down with a fever I remember I couldn't control his temperature with calpol and nurofen which resulted in him going to hospital with a fainting attack he does suffer fainting when temp high. When in hospital I mentioned his croup type cough he developed and the fact hed been in bed for 5 days they couldn't get rid of him quick enough. It was like they knew something and were alarmed. When he was discharged they said to contact anyone who had the same symptoms that hed been in contact with and ask them to keep a good eye on them. He also had the lack of taste and took 3 weeks to recover i came down with similar but less severe. I have since found out half his class had it. So was just wondering could this have been coronavirus thankyou

There is no evidence as a PP has stated that it wasn't here in December. I know a few people who were quite poorly around Christmas and New Year. But because of flu season, it was put down to winter colds and bugs. Nobody is scaremongering. Just examining the possibility.

Two thirds of medical staff thought that they had it and when tested, they didn't. So there are nasty viruses about. That was on the BBC.

The original coronavirus put me in hospital a few years ago. Viruses can wipe you out.

I think that if it was here, younger people would have died, who would have been diagnosed or it show up on the autopsy, that something new was about.

We've had a 62% more death rate since this hit. They're finally giving proper figures compared with the last seven years figures. We would have peaked earlier with Christmas shopping/socialising/football fans etc. It would have ripped through London and been here in Liverpool/Merseyside. As well as other less hit places.

I was extremely sick last year with some random virus that came on very suddenly and made me breathless in a way I'd never experienced in my life. Had a chest x-ray to check if developed pneumonia (I hadn't) and my gp personally called me every evening for 4 days he was so concerned.

It was last March, so definitely not COVID-19 related. But if it was this year I'd be convinced I had COVID-19. It was extremely distressing at the time, and took me ages to recover - can't imagine how COVID survivors feel.

My point is that there are always weird viruses going around and you can't assume it was coronavirus. (But it could have been)

I read an article stating that some branch of Oxford University was looking into this theory.

I became very ill in mid December. I lost my sense of smell then and still don't really have it back, it comes and goes. I had a horrible cough, so bad I had to sleep sitting up because lying down made me cough too much, and I lost my breath very quickly, when I walked up the stairs I'd have to sit down to get my breath back. It really knocked me sideways. So when the CV thing blew up my main concern was that I really wanted to avoid getting ill again while I still wasn't 100% after the December thing.

It really does sound very similar, but then I suppose most of these viruses are similar.

It may have been circulating in December, but I don't believe that health care staff were aware of this and covered it up, as you seem to be implying.

I've reported this thread for deliberate scaremongering. Op, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Why should op be ashamed? For simply discussing an event 4 months ago? Hardly scaremongering is it. Particularly as we now have a Pandemic. Not scaremongering. A fact. Totally bizarre of you. For what purpose / reason would you report it? Or are you just one of those many people who likes to control the conversation and hit the report button when you don't agree with it.

An epidemiologist I saw interviewed and asked this question said there wasn’t an increase in death rates comparable to what we should have seen.

So no, I don’t. I expect it was a seasonal flu; Coronavirus will have overlaps with standard flu.

Why should op be ashamed? For simply discussing an event 4 months ago?

Probably because of this part...

When in hospital I mentioned his croup type cough he developed and the fact hed been in bed for 5 days they couldn't get rid of him quick enough. It was like they knew something and were alarmed. When he was discharged they said to contact anyone who had the same symptoms that hed been in contact with and ask them to keep a good eye on them.

I think the death statistics do sort of disprove it to an extent, there was nothing special about them in December and boy is there now.

I'm sure it was here earlier than it hit public announcement, as was the case everywhere, even China, but December does seem a stretch. I think a lot of peoples coping mechanism is to manage fear by believing they may already have had it, and it was bad, but they made it out.
There is no way of knowing and it is safer (though more alarming sadly) to assume you didn't, it was not that, it was one of the many viruses which cause all of those symptoms also, and take the proper precautions with covid 19.

@MissHoskins I've reported your post too. It's not scare mongering, is it? It's just someone asking a question. This is a forum, that's what people do. Get a grip.

I don't think so OP - deaths were only being reported in Wuhan towards the end of December.

I have wondered if it got to UK before they said though- because my DS (18) had the most horrific illness starting on Jan 7th (the day he was sent home from school) which we initially thought might be norovirus, then flu, then turned into a horrific cough/chest infection that laid him low for over 3 weeks. I have seriously wondered if it was corona.

BUT - nobody else caught it from him. The first confirmed cases in UK weren't until end Jan/beg of Feb - and they were tracked/tested - ie. the time they found that superspreader in Brighton, and the students in Yorkshire. Plus, the trajectory of the illness documented officially - ie the exponential death toll since those first cases - fits with those facts. I think if it had been with us earlier, we would have had more deaths earlier.

There are a lot of nasty flu/bugs around as well as corona.

In December I had the worst cough. I vomited from coughing more than once. It was relentless. I had sweats, raised temperature, exhausted. I ended up on an inhaler, even though I'm not asthmatic.

However it was December 2018, so not Covid-19. Point is, we can look back and see things that have other explanations.

I think the death statistics do sort of disprove it to an extent, there was nothing special about them in December and boy is there now

Is there somewhere we can see total number of deaths per week/month?

Because obviously if it WAS here sooner than they think, the deaths wold have been recorded as some other cause.

I guess what you want to compare is total deaths in December '19 and Jan, Feb and Mar '20 to the same months in previous years.

Ds had an awful chest infection type illness in December, was off school for nearly 3 weeks, had multiple courses of antibiotics & steroids, raging temperature, sore throat so bad he couldn't eat. He went to Italy in Feb half term with school & within a week had another bad chest infection with temperature, he passed it on to me & I was ill for 3 weeks, hacking cough, temperature, shivering, headache, I contacted our GP but got told to ring 111 Coronavirus helpline who just said unless I got worse to ride it out at home. I eventually got better but neither of us know if it was Coronavirus. If they would just test everyone with symptoms then maybe more would be safe to be out instead of being terrified under lockdown.

My DH returned from a skiing holiday in northern Italy in early March having been quite ill while he was there. He got much worse and phoned NHS 111 who arranged for him to be tested for coronavirus.
We had to wait 5 days for-the result and when it came back it turned out to be seasonal flu, and a chest infection.
He was really ill for over two weeks and only recovered very slowly.
I think there has been a very bad strain (or strains) of flu around this winter and many people probably had that. He had had a flu injection last autumn too!

ICantBelieveInYou
"is there somewhere we can see total number of deaths per week/month?"

SAGE records them. They were shown on the BBC tonight, but only from March onwards, but for the last seven years. There's been a 62% rise and enough in terms of younger people who didn't have health issues and with medical staff, to be clear that something usual is happening. That wouldn't have gone unnoticed during December and January. It's too contagious.

Nat6999, the problem is that we don't know if we become immune.

Yes, I think it was.

Icantbelieveyou - yes - I think they would have been recorded as pneumonia, as CV19 is generally life threatening when it turns into pneumonia/respiratory failure.

The thing that I read about China - well, Wuhan specifically - they noticed the "SARS" aspect straight away - the docs noticed a cluster of pneumonias, and one doc notably said "omg SARS is back again." Don't ask me to find the source, it was ages ago I read this - but it in an article about the whistleblowing Chinese doctor who eventually died from CV19 in Wuhan.

Possibly, our doctors weren't too familiar with a SARS - because it never got to us before. But - would they have backtracked and noticed an upsurge in pneumonias/acute respiratory failures, as the Chinese whistleblowers did? I would think so. But I don't know for sure.

Ponoko7 - yes that answers that question - thank you. The upsurge of deaths from the documented time CV19 entered the UK answers the question. The upsurge would have been noticed earlier if it had been here earlier.

I had fever, fatigue, shortness of breath, sore throat and terrible cough where I couldn’t catch my breath last June. It took me ages to recover from and was the sickest I’ve been in years. If I had those symptoms right now I’d think it was pretty likely I had corona virus but clearly that’s not what it was.

I’m not saying it isn’t possible that you had it in December but it’s more likely it was a strain flu or some other virus.

I found total weekly death stats for England and Wale on the ONS website (www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales for anyone interested).

The deaths in December last year all the way to end of March this year were all level with the 5-yearly average. Only the last week of March did they start ramping up and then this last week it was WELL above average.

Top row is week ending, second row is 2020 total deaths, bottom row is 5-year-average total deaths.:

06-03-20
10,895
11,498

13-03-20
11,019
11,205

20-03-20
10,645
10,573

27-03-20
11,141
10,130

03-04-20
16,387
10,305

I'm convinced it was. I too had a very terrible flu, cough couldn't stop, difficulty breathing called ambulance twice and sore throat from
Hell. It was the Chinese New Year and a lot of travelling between here and there. It was the worst flu I've ever had and I don't normally get the flu.

@SylvanianFrenemies Similar experiences in December 2018, & there is at least one MN thread about how horrendous the virus was at that time.

I am a regular flu jabber, & was horribly sick. As another poster mentioned a cough so hacking & harsh that it provoked vomiting. It did the rounds locally & we knew of friends & neighbours with the same thing with a variety of outcomes from multiple courses of antibiotics & diagnoses of viral pneumonia. The irony of being slumped in bed hacking away whilst the MSM reported lower than expected rates of annual flu in the NHS. Just goes to show what gets noticed & what gets counted.

I think it was something else.

I had the dry cough from hell in December. I was rushed to A&E because I literally couldn't breathe. I spent a week in hospital with internal bleeding. I had coughed that much that I burst a blood vessel in my abdominal muscles. I felt like shit for most of Christmas.

Then in early March I had a fever, I had a tickle in the back of my throat and I felt like an elephant was sitting on my chest and I was breathless. No cough. It has lasted for 31 days and still counting.

Of the 2 - I would say the 2nd one is CV.
There are lots of virus's around in the winter. Yes, I had the 'cough' in December but I'm certain it wasn't CV. CV wasn't in the UK then and my symptoms in March are all the diagnosis I need.

We do not have any direct association with China except that our neighbourhood does have a well established Chinese Quarter with global business executives & academics commuting between China & UK.