Death toll and hysteria

[CathyandHeathcliff]

I was just thinking if every death from every illness was reported daily in the way the current deaths from Covid are, people would never leave the house again, surely?

The current total of deaths worldwide is less than the population of the town I grew up in. Putting it like that makes me feel weird. Whenever I see the numbers, I like others, panic. My DP said tonight that most people aren’t used to seeing these numbers, in this context so they don’t properly understand them.

I also keep seeing people on social media and on here saying things won’t ever go back to normality as we knew it. I keep thinking that the world and country went through two world wars, with a pandemic thrown in the middle for good measure, and still came out of it and back to normality soon enough. More people lost their lives in the blitz than have so far died of Covid.
I’m hoping my post doesn’t offend anyone, but the whole thing is confusing me and a lot of it doesn’t add up to me either.

It’s so hypocritical, I don’t understand why India is even in lockdown, it won’t stop the spread but millions will die, 800 million poor live on less than £2 a day and that money has stopped, we won’t know how many will starve to death but it will be in the millions because of lockdown, far more than coronvirus

We are facing deaths from two causes.

One is Covid - these will be minimised the more we lockdown

The other is the combined effect of lockdown, everything from the delayed cancer treatments (cancer referrals down 70%), austerity, suicide, missed heart attacks/strokes - these will be minimised by ignoring covid and getting back to normal

There's no way to square the circle, death rates will be higher whatever we do.

It will not be possible to find the best solution by the worlds governments through this, they don't have enough information and can't model well enough the various factors. They've just got to try their best and we've got to keep going as best we can

@rollercoaster1920 that's a great article and good context.

It will be interesting to see

a) how many deaths are 'brought forward' so what the excess total is for 2020. Might not be that much.

B) how many are Covid vs people not seeking treatment for other things when they should? The hysteria is possibly killing people almost as much as Covid 19. Eg there are about 1000 fewer people in ICU beds than usual without Covid (& it's not a capacity issue). In Scotland there were 639 extra deaths in the week to 5th March but only 346 were Covid 19. So that's almost half of the extra deaths being people who didn't seek treatment when they should have done for heart disease etc.

@ThinkAboutItTomorrow I agree, i’m not saying this isn’t horrendous, there needs to be a prospective to the numbers though. There isn’t news daily of of other deaths each day, there isn’t news of the amount of people recovering each day either.

How people interpret information is based a lot on their character, some naturally optimistic others naturally pessimistic. You can see that in these types of threads.

I don't think it's ever wrong to question things it is part of being human.

@whiskybysidedoor yes this is my issue as well, I’ll be interested to see the actual numbers of those who died with it their system and those who died as a direct result of it as both are counted

@ArriettyJones it is not airborne so don’t spread more panic by writing that down

@TheLastSaola agree. I work in community nursing and just said this to my colleagues today, in the year to come I can see having more palliative patients on our caseload due to less treatments and late diagnosis

I think the number of cases in general is of much more significance than the death toll itself - but then we of course don’t have that information because we’re not testing people.

There are far more people recovering than dying, that is never reported.

I've counted to 100, but I still need to say...

My DP said tonight that most people aren’t used to seeing these numbers, in this context so they don’t properly understand them

WTAF is your DP on about. 'Number who have died, in hospital, from CV.'

What exactly does he think we don't understand about that. It's not quantum physics. His superior attitude is bloody ridiculous.

@TheCountessatHotelCortez

it is not airborne so don’t spread more panic by writing that down

Actually, many virologists disagree AND it's definitely suspended in the air. Try reading more than what politicians tell you.

There are far more people recovering than dying, that is never reported

🙄🙄it's stated DAILY that for most people it will be mild flu like symptoms

It's stated DAILY the number of cases & the number of deaths in hospital

They can't state the 'recovered' numbers because they aren't testing & don't have a benchmark for 'recovered'

YABU and a bit clueless.

DH works in funeral care and is accustomed to being faced with death on a daily basis. He is visibly stressed and exhausted by how busy they are at the moment

There are more deaths than normal for the week commencing 3rd April.
However, the numbers remain extremely low in relation to a total population of c. 66m.
I suspect that if the media had been, pre C19, publishing death rates based on levels of obesity or levels of air pollution (8m worldwide for the latter) there would have been nowhere near the same traction even though overall they are a lot more dangerous (and indeed can play a part in worsening the effects of the virus).

YANBU
The government thought people needed to have the bejesus scared out of them by DEATHS to comply with distancing 'to help the NHS'but have overstayed it and people are being ridiculously melodramatic.
There is 30%capacity in ICU /they daren't tell us that (unlike Sweden) as they don't trust people to continue to distance in that event.

@AmelieTaylor I work on frontline nhs and can assure you that the gps I work with have been told by medical experts that it is NOT airborne unless specific things are happening eg high power drilling, cpap machine use and some invasive procedure involving the throat etc. It is primarily droplet transmission spread through coughs/sneezes and through touching surfaces others have touched, if someone coughs or sneezes whilst walking the droplets would fall straight to the ground as too heavy, if someone coughed in your face it would be the droplets entering your body through your eyes or mouth etc thus the push to not touch your face

I don’t understand why some posters are suggesting extra people are dying because lockdown means they don’t get treatment for other conditions.
Do posters think that if there was no lockdown and 100,000 people were dying of Covid and hospitals and healthcare staff were totally swamped that these other sick people would be accessing healthcare?
People are not missing normal healthcare because of the lockdown they are missing it because of Covid!

@thecountess

When you cough/sneeze you don't only expel large droplets, you expel thousands of far far smaller particles.

Try watching this all the way through & understanding the science. Virus IS airborne

m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1JEbx9NY2I

He's not a virologist, but he's good at layman explanations.

@Inniu. That logic does seem to be escaping most people, yes.

I guess the difference to "normal" deaths is that coronavirus is contagious. If people die from cancer, car accidents etc, yes it's sad but it doesn't threaten your own health.

YABU

Firstly, This isn’t just about your perception of faceless people dying. These are people’s family and friends.

It’s also not just about death - there is a huge unknown with this and perhaps you will feel less blasé when you (or someone you love) get it. Because I can assure you even ‘mild’ is not a walk in the park, except for a lucky few. I’ve had a fever for a MONTH with this (along with other key debilitating symptoms and GP diagnosis) and it’s like nothing I’ve ever known, with no idea what it’s doing as there’s no investigation of ANY aspects except hospitalisation for severe breathing issues (the less severe breathing issues are still horrible).

I’m afraid this disease deserves the caution that is being driven

Do posters think that if there was no lockdown and 100,000 people were dying of Covid and hospitals and healthcare staff were totally swamped that these other sick people would be accessing healthcare?
People are not missing normal healthcare because of the lockdown they are missing it because of Covid!

Absolutely. Imagine the death toll on NHS workers if the virus were allowed to run rife. That alone would decimate the system and any hope of treating other conditions.

It's clear that swamping the NHS would also be catastrophic for both the economy and for healthcare provision for other illnesses. I think lockdown, at the time it was introduced, had to be the right option.

However, I do think we have to strive for a balance, have to look to ease lockdown restrictions as much as possible, and accept that there will be deaths from covid because of this - because the alternative is net more deaths from other causes.

Minimising covid deaths cannot be the one and only goal

People don't think about death unless it directly affects us and yes if the daily death toll was published all the time we would all be aware of our mortality and probably live our lives very differently. But 'normal' deaths are still occurring alongside the covid ones - to have people dying because of a virus that is incredibly contagious is not normal. The crematoriums my DH works with are operating at about 10 extra cremations per day. He has about twenty arrangements and counting and he is one of five funeral directors who are all working incredibly long hours. Again this is not normal, particularly for this time of year.

There is a lot of scaremongering out there granted but also the facts are scary too. None of us want to be in this situation. I have a vulnerable child and Im worried sick. But not wanting something to be a certain way doesn't stop it from being so. The people in the thick of it - drs, nurses, care workers, funeral workers are telling you its bad because it is. Its far from hysteria