If you are in the vulnerable group but not shielding do you have to return to work when requested?

[Littlemiss74]

I am asking this in a professional capacity as the question has arisen at work in my team.

We have several people who are in the vulnerable category with eg asthma who have been furloughed. If they are required to end furlough and return to work can they object as they are in a vulnerable group? Would they only be able to do this if they had a shielding letter? And what about if they have a partner who is shielding and they want to not return to work so as to protect them?

Obviously want to do the right thing as only the individual’s concerned know anxious returning to
work may make them feel. But at the same time business needs have to be met somehow. It’s a tricky one.

It's crap. And similar to the situation for vulnerable who have school age kids.
While 1 family member goes out and cant SD then everyone gets it.
Imo asthma and T1 diabetes should be considered higher risk.
Especially as compared to a 70yo many will have to still be working/have young kids. So basically cant make the choices to stay home. And may be leaving children without a parent. (Im only 40 with under 10yo kids.)
Masks do help but as you see with the drs and nurses they can get it anyway.
Also a bit of a crazy situation where a t1 diabetic or asthmatic can be forced to work but i think a 40+ bmi might be shielded? (Crazy as potentially the high bmi could reduce their risk somewhat by May.).
People with high bp are also at higher risks.

@Keepdistance High risk asthmatics are already in the shielded group. People with 40+ BMI are not. Interesting that you think only type one diabetics should be shielded, not type two. Have you always been interested in a eugenics programme against fat people or is this a new development?

I've got MS. And I'm a nurse. No way was I going to go off. I have a risk assessment and am on the list of staff that can't be moved to the Covid ward.

Type one alone does not mean you're at any more risk of catching it. It could make it more tricky to manage if you do but there's currently no data to suggest this other than the usual risks of being ill when type one. In Lombardy not a single person admitted to ICU was type one diabetic, plenty of type two though (according to the chart below).

Genuine question- are type 1 diabetics not at a greater risk because their condition is autoimmune? There seems to be some mummers around covid and the immune response in patients who have a more severe case.
I would imagine type 2 have a similar risk but due to different reasons. Rather than immune response, potentially higher BP etc. Of course all of these risks will be increased with less optimal control.

I'm glad I'm not the only one quietly anxious about this. Unfortunately I agree with most of you and think the government won't be able to help. They surely can't afford to .

That's reassuring, Wreck.

Im a GP (and also in the vulnerable group). The rules are quite complicated for different conditions but there are now fairly robust guidelines in place. Essentially, unless shielded, you have to go back to work, whether you can social distance there or not. Work should do a risk assessment, but being close to people at work is not sadly an excuse to not go in. This is because work is deemed as 'essential'. Hopefully many places will let you work from home, but they dont have to do this if the role isnt suitable. Realistically there are just too many workers in the vulnerable category - the economy would collapse further if they all still had to stay off. Its crap, im also pregnant so believe me dont want to be in work myself but those are the rules.

Toddler I am in awe of many who must have been told to self isolate on the vulnerable list and can't due to their job. I am sure there are many.

But from a different perspective, my sister has asthma and is also a nurse. My DM says she is having to talk her (my sister) out of a panic attack every evening as she is completely hysterical about the possibility of catching it. She is working. But her mental health is in pieces.

To be honest user I've been wondering this too. People assume we have weakened immune systems but that's not true. I was actually on hydroxychloroquine for another issue a while back because I had lupus symptoms and a positive blood test. I think that they probably just don't know and at the moment it's just musings.

I'm concerned about this as I have asthma - well-controlled, but it evidences in a tendency for any virus to go to my lungs and precipitate what is either a 2 week asthma attack or bronchitis.

I work with young people & often in close proximity. I am worried about a return to working in the way we did a month ago.

I think we're going to have to learn new ways of working and taking social responsibility: wearing masks, washing hands, always using a tissue or crook of the elbow when coughing or sneezing. Also - larger office spaces for meetings, and protocols about sharing spaces.

And most importantly, NOT "soldiering on if we have "just a cold" - as if I catch "just a cold" from a colleague, I can be in bed for 3-4 days and ill for 2 weeks. You may be OK, but there will be those around you who are in this borderline "vulnerable" category. It may be that there will be times when those of us who can, will work remotely, as a lot of us are now.

I don't think anyone, even the officially shielded, has an automatic right to indefinite paid leave.

Even if a RA says it's not safe for them to work, there wouid be no assumption that the employer has to pay them. If it's no longer possible to furlough them, the employer would have to deal with it through their absence policies. As always, it will be down to the employer to balance the needs of the business against being decent to the staff. It's all very worrying, I can't see any business being able to retain staff with a health condition that means they are unable to work long term equally, they can't risk allowing them to work if it's not safe for them to do so.

I have 3 people in my team self isolating for 12 weeks.
They are not in the shielding category but have other health conditions that make them higher risk.
They are being paid full pay and it doesn't impact on their sickness record.

Our organisation has been very supportive

@user1471530109 teacher here, we were told that this period where we are off due to COVID won't count as sick leave. The only exception being if we choose to travel to an area where it's been advised against

You don't need to have severe asthma to struggle with Covid-19 though. My colleague has very well controlled asthma and has been hospitalised with Covid-19 where they are receiving oxygen

Yes Caffi I'm personally worried about that happening to me (and as a bit over 60, I'm not sure I'd be a priority).

It’s shit isn’t it? People more at risk will have to choose between their lives and their incomes with higher stakes than some.

Vulnerable (lung disease), work in education, can't imagine how I can go back...sadly, will have to give up my job, claim unemployment and look for work from home positions, or try to set up a home based business etc.

Will be social distancing until treatments for serious Covid illness become available and/or a vaccine.

My social distancing measures will probably include sending teen ds to live with low risk family - he can't be locked down with me endlessly, for the sake of his mental health.

No job, no child, and endless waiting to see what improvements in treatments arrive...this short period of lock down seems like a bloody picnic in comparison.

It's not eugenics.
The reason i think that about high bmi 40+ is it is similar to smoking and like smoking i would expect people to stop rather than expect to be protected by everyone else for something they can likely change.
T2 diabetes slightly different as some minorities are more at risk even with heathy weight etc.
I would just prioritise people who cant do anything to change their risk factors.
Re the lombary data. Could be the diabetics t1 are not making it to icu... After all the data will be lower re number of 60+ needing icu as they just werent allowed to go there.

Im sure i saw 1/10 diabetics in hospital died (not sure where from) but i guess it could have been t2.

Same with asthmatics they could be dying at home or deprioritised for treatment. After all a lot of shielded people may face the same unfortunately.

As we can see very few people will be able to protect themself so people need to take personal responsibility
Manage their conditions well (asthma/diabetes etc)
Everyone should get their weights down (although i do think generally weight was not a huge factor but maybe bp etc and undiagnosed diabetes).
Ive lost 4lb already. I doubt they will assess on weight but they do use a frailty chart for treatment and it's looking at how fit people are.
The ny paramedic article was lots of people dying of heart attacks so if we are all going to get this everyone should try to be as healthy as possible.

Personally as an asthmatic i find i catch more bugs.

I dont know how relevant the conditions are really it may affect % but realistically it's either 0 or 1. And many people are there without any conditions.

@Keepdistance how the hell is any of that relevant?

DH and I will be more at risk going back to work than someone without health problems, we can’t just ‘manage’ them better it doesn’t work like that. I can’t just magically not have a chronic neurological disease. I already manage it well. You really are talking crap

Sorry to hear about your colleague caffi.

Hadn't heard of stage two; I'm at that stage myself. Viruses are my biggest trigger. My lungs like the summer air and dogs and dust aren't an issue. Cold and humid Atmosphere can make my lungs claggy so viruses are always worse in winter. Also have a tendency to fatigue due to hypothyroidism and hypermobility and probably age 40's hormones. I do fear cfs. I'd rather get this in the summer tbh.

Sorry about your situation Vino. I think the teaching unions may force pregnant women to wfh and then early mat leave.

Keepdistance I'm assuming you know nothing about type one diabetes to assume they're dying before they make it to ITU or are not prioritised what a ridiculous thing to say.

@Keepdistance Thank fuck you’re not in charge of anything. You haven’t got a clue and yet you think you can decide who ‘deserves’ protection. Maybe Dominic Cummings has a job for you.