Denmark mandatory Covid19 vaccine

[scamander]

Put aside vaxxer/antivaxxer hats for a little please. Does this bother anyone? Do people not have a choice? Are we losing our freedom before our very eyes?

'As well as enforcing quarantine measures, the law also allows the authorities to force people to be vaccinated, even though there is currently no vaccination for the virus'

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.dk/20200313/denmark-passes-far-reaching-emergency-coronavirus-law/amp

@BungleandGeorge

But the point is, ideally mass vaccination should start once vaccines are deemed safe. You shouldn't have to sue anyone (if things go wrong and people start suing the government we will all end up paying for these lawsuits through tax anyway)

Some of the vaccines, like the Oxford one are pretty standard vaccines really

The Oxford one is also a new technology vaccine (chimpanzee adenovirus vaccine vector)

I'm as pro vaccine as they come so I'm not necessarily against the idea of mandatory vaccinations for all but isn't this all going to be moot anyway. Lots of businesses are going to be wanting to make sure that their employees are vaccinated or have a vaccine passport, so you either get the vaccine and can work or dont get the vaccine and can't. It makes sense for business to run with this because lockdowns and the furlough scheme can't keep going on in perpetuity. (I've been furloughed since march -until jan). I desperately want to go back to work. If that means getting a vaccine that will protect me, my job and my family I'm all for it.

@Doublebubblebubble

Lots of businesses are going to be wanting to make sure that their employees are vaccinated or have a vaccine passport, so you either get the vaccine and can work or dont get the vaccine and can't

Are businesses going to be liable if they 'force' you to get a vaccine and this results in serious long term damage to your health?

@justgeton

There are many laws to protect us.

I want a law that protects me from long term health damage from an insufficiently tested vaccine

[quote trulydelicious]@justgeton

There are many laws to protect us.

I want a law that protects me from long term health damage from an insufficiently tested vaccine[/quote]
What makes you think it's not tested? It's not new... this isn't new science. They've just worked with other coronavirus vaccines to make this one

No drama

It’s ridiculous to make a vaccine mandatory for a disease which is mild/asymptomatic for the vast majority of people. Natural infection can also confer immunity so people can still contribute to the ‘herd’ even if they haven’t had the vaccine (why should they have to get it if they’re already immune?) Recent studies have shown 6+ months immunity after natural infection and we don’t yet know how long vaccine protection could last - it may have to be annual. Forcing people to have a vaccine annually that is mainly for the benefit of others rather than themselves is unethical.

@bumbleymummy

It’s ridiculous to make a vaccine mandatory for a disease which is mild/asymptomatic for the vast majority of people. Natural infection can also confer immunity so people can still contribute to the ‘herd’ even if they haven’t had the vaccine (why should they have to get it if they’re already immune?) Recent studies have shown 6+ months immunity after natural infection and we don’t yet know how long vaccine protection could last - it may have to be annual. Forcing people to have a vaccine annually that is mainly for the benefit of others rather than themselves is unethical.

Not to mention immorally selfish

[quote trulydelicious]@Doublebubblebubble

Lots of businesses are going to be wanting to make sure that their employees are vaccinated or have a vaccine passport, so you either get the vaccine and can work or dont get the vaccine and can't

Are businesses going to be liable if they 'force' you to get a vaccine and this results in serious long term damage to your health?[/quote]
@trulydelicious and what about the affects of covid?? Ive had 3 people DIE from this disease. It isnt pretty. You suffocate to death. My mum has cancer right now, With the vaccine she has a chance to get better. She has sinus cancer which has a good survivability rate. The vaccine will be safe or they wouldnt give it to us. Im not taking any chances with covid. Id rather have the vaccine and go back to normal. We cannot keep locking down.

I know I’m going to come across ignorant now but this is a genuine question...

If everyone who wanted to go vaccinated, wouldn’t it mean that they’d all be immune and the people who didn’t get the vaccine just spread it amongst themselves? Or is that not how it works?

I dont believe this means Denmark will be forcing everyone to be vaccinated. The law expires in March, which is before most of the population will be vaccinated.

There will be a lot of context to exactly what this means.

Lots of businesses are going to be wanting to make sure that their employees are vaccinated or have a vaccine passport, so you either get the vaccine and can work or dont get the vaccine and can't

Any evidence of this or are you just stating your opinion as if it were reality?

It’s ridiculous to make a vaccine mandatory for a disease which is mild/asymptomatic for the vast majority of people
Forcing people to have a vaccine annually that is mainly for the benefit of others rather than themselves is unethical.

I fully agree with this. And I am pro vaccination. And will most likely be getting the vaccine some time in the future.
I just feel that on many levels this virus has been blown out of proportion.

It’s not going to be mandatory. Nobody’s going to make you have it.

You should only ever have freedoms to the extent that your actions don't harm others

This a million times over!

to those who think it has been blown out of proportion: 60.000 people dead above the number of normal population death. And many more suffering long term health issues that might stay with them forever.
At what point do you think it would be acceptable to make such as a fuss? a million deaths? 2-3 million incapacitated? Then you'd say, okay, now it's proportional..?
about one third of the uk population is cv/ecv if I remember correctly. Is it okay in your eyes to either isolate them totally (camps maybe so they are safe?) or let them simply get it and the fit will survive?

As a society UK has proven to be selfish, immature and extremely stupid.

If as a society life had value than people would not be sending in kids to school (at least in secondary), would not tolerate and stand up against working conditions that are clearly unsafe for an airborne virus.
Instead we are cramming 30 kids into classrooms because they are magical places where the virus is not present (bs) and now planning on family gatherings across the country to make sure that all areas have -potentially- an equal opportunity to go to shit.

As a society people here can be blindsided easily with a rubber bone dropped into a conversation to distract them from what is really important. Latest example is the national outcry over cutting aid money, when the whole budget is a crap show. Slice'n'dice or as the french would say: Divide et impera.

@LioneIRichTea

I know I’m going to come across ignorant now but this is a genuine question...

If everyone who wanted to go vaccinated, wouldn’t it mean that they’d all be immune and the people who didn’t get the vaccine just spread it amongst themselves? Or is that not how it works?

It's not as easy as that.

There are some people who, for medical reasons, cannot take a vaccine. There are some who can take it but it might not work as well. These are likely to be elderly and vulnerable people.The efficacy of the vaccine is not going to be 100%. Therefore, the more people who take it the better to create herd immunity for those elderly/vulnerable people who are most likely to suffer from covid's effects. This is what I understand anyway.

Thank you @tobee I knew I was missing something

disturbing, utterly disturbing
but in saying that im prepping for a shit fight to get a medical exemption in aus for my phobia.
While no official announcements, I can see them tying it to travel interstate, centerlink (income support, welfare), medicare, work so not mandatory but you kinda fucked with services, travel and employment

Denmark is a small country and it’s political culture is very different to here. It’s a place where people get together and agree a common policy that everyone then adheres to. For example, I had a friend with a 13 year old daughter and the parents in the school met to agree their common policy about whether to allow alcohol at their children’s parties. Once agreed, everyone followed the rule even if you didn’t like it. In that light it’s not so surprising that vaccines might be mandatory for the greater good of the country.

Sorry @MaxNormal whilst Schengen provides for open borders it’s simply not true in COVID times and actually it’s changing regularly. For example most of the Scandinavian countries currently have their borders closed to non-residents or for non-essential travel (even for Europeans). Switzerland also closed its borders when its rate was lower than the surrounding countries. I think there is a good chance that countries with low rates of COVID and mandatory vaccination (not that I agree with it) could and would close their borders to unvaccinated Europeans.

Yes I know that borders were closed temporarily in the first wave but I'd be very surprised if one of the fundamental principles of freedom of movement were changed long term.
We shall see.

@MaxNormal

Lots of businesses are going to be wanting to make sure that their employees are vaccinated or have a vaccine passport, so you either get the vaccine and can work or dont get the vaccine and can't

Any evidence of this or are you just stating your opinion as if it were reality?

Well I can certainly see that being a possibility,.

Just as a point of info: There are certainly some jobs in the UK where having a current Yellow Fever vaccination is still a requirement for some roles, and an individual's vaccination status is monitored by the company.

No current vaccination means no job in any of those roles ( they aren't medical roles, or anything like, but they do involve the possibility involve worldwide travel at short notice, hence the requirement).

I have no idea whether the same will apply to the Covid jab, and I'm certainly don't favour forcing mandatory vaccination for everybody, but we're back to the issue of actions, or inactions, might well have consequences.

@bumbleymummy

It’s ridiculous to make a vaccine mandatory for a disease which is mild/asymptomatic for the vast majority of people. Natural infection can also confer immunity so people can still contribute to the ‘herd’ even if they haven’t had the vaccine (why should they have to get it if they’re already immune?) Recent studies have shown 6+ months immunity after natural infection and we don’t yet know how long vaccine protection could last - it may have to be annual. Forcing people to have a vaccine annually that is mainly for the benefit of others rather than themselves is unethical.

Same could be said of most vaccines - rubella is an incredibly mild disease unless your a foetus.

I think compulsory gives antivaxxer airtime and increases resistance. It’s not ideal. Far better it is required for those things that are technically optional but which people want to do. Travel, hotels, employment, elective healthcare, concerts and sporting events. Schools perhaps, since 20% of spread is within schools.

It’s really not been created in a few days in a test tube and domestic fridge. It has been built on years of viral epidemiology knowledge.

@TheNighthawk

Germany has mandatory measles vaccination.

We should too, IMO

This was actually news to me, although I live in Germany. Seems it came into effect on 1 March this year, so I think it sort of got swallowed by the start of the pandemic - and I don't have kids at school any more, but even if I did they're fully vaccinated .

I looked up the FAQ on the government website. The law is relevant for all minors in childcare or school, plus staff in those facilities AND healthcare staff (but not patients). But not the general public. Presumably, any staff who refuse to prove they're vaccinated would ultimately be sacked, while nursery kids would lose their place. School is mandatory in Germany (home schooling not possible), so the mechanism there is a minimum 2500 euro fine (with an option to raise that for rich parents). It's the same as the initial fine for not sending your kid to school.

But crucially, nobody will be held down while a needle is forced into them! It's explicitly a Impfpflicht (mandatory vaccination/duty to vaccinate) NOT a Zwangspflicht (forced vaccination). Any consequences would go via the courts.

@CherryPavlova

It has been built on years of viral epidemiology knowledge.

Which vaccine are you referring to precisely?

Also, in this case it's the long term testing that's missing.

Theoretical knowledge does not equal proof of how something works in practice

@CherryPavlova

Far better it is required for those things that are technically optional but which people want to do.

Genuinely curious as you seem to be so adamant that people are coerced into taking a new Covid vaccine. How would you feel if the vaccine ended up damaging your health or the health of your family? It could happen you know, nobody knows as these are new vaccines