All the doctors dying are Asian - what’s going on?

[MMXVi]

And why is nobody asking questions about this?

I’m over-invested in the answer because my sister is a doctor very much on the frontline, and we’re of Indian ethnicity. I want her to be protected and if she’s facing some sort of additional genetic, behavioural or dietary risk I want that flagged up to her and other doctors PDQ, not to mention their patients of the same ethnicity.

If I see another glib and possibly slightly racist response about BAME people being poorer and therefore more prone to underlying conditions I’ll flip my lid totally by the way. There’s a world of difference between an Asian hospital consultant on £150k in stockbrokerville and someone Asian on the breadline in an overcrowded council flat, and it isn’t helpful to lump them together in this instance.

So far, I’ve seen a thread about Vitamin D3 deficiency making darker-skinned people more susceptible to respiratory illness. That makes sense to me, and I’ve already ordered some from Amazon for my sister as well as the rest of our family.

My mother (not medically qualified) has a touching belief in the anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic powers of turmeric so I’m making daal as we speak.

My dad (retired very senior doctor and the veteran of more than one pandemic) says probably multi-factorial, but as he’s currently recovering from cancer and therefore very high risk, I’m not going to make him elaborate.

Any other ideas and theories?

Anyone else concerned about why the press have neglected to mention this glaringly obvious information?

Sardines contain healthy fats and anyway, fat from natural sources isn’t bad for you. Thinking that fat is bad for you has partly got us in this mess!
Going back to Asian people-if you do the BMI and waist circumference test online it is clear about this: South Asians particularly cannot afford to carry extra weight around the middle. A waist size of 31.5 in a S Asian woman is considered problematic.

Yes, lots of good fats is probably why I have only seen a GP once in 15 years! In fact at the moment most nights my food before bed time is a tin of sardines in olive oil!

dryheave you are miles behind the curve, miles. Good fats won’t make you fat. They will keep you satiated and not craving the carbs that will bigger your metabolism

Remember that the thread is about Asian/BAME doctors, not the victims in general. Drs being wealthy and highly educated don't seem to suffer as much from overweight as the population as a whole
The same issues apply to asian doctors though. The ones pictured have been a bit overweight. That added to the issue that the healthy weight for those of Asian descent is significantly lower than caucasians. They also still live within the same culture- multi generational households, cooking with a lot of fat and carbs etc as well as genetic predisposition to diabetes, high blood pressure etc.

I do wish I liked oily fish but apart from anchovies I can’t stomach them
I also big up the high fat low carb approach for getting rid of belly fat. I did read it is genetically determined where you will store fat and perhaps it also depends on ethnic background too whether it goes to your middle or not. I’m an apple and the thing is, apples are deceiving because you have skinny limbs.

You can take an Omega 3 supplement though.

I’ve had issues with inflammation in the past and they’ve been transformed by taking omega 3 and curcumin.

It’s so sad that people STILL think all fats are bad. Sardines are a super food. If more people ate traditional foods we wouldn’t have the health disaster we do today.

To try to answer a question upthread re high blood pressure and stress.... my understanding of that relationship is that in times of stress the body raises blood pressure. So far so normal. After the episode of stress, blood pressure SHOULD return to its baseline. The problem occurs when repeated episodes of stress or even living in a perpetual state of stress, means that the blood pressure never fully goes back down to its baseline. It might go back down but never just quite where it started, so even if it’s just a couple of points over its baseline, the baseline creeps upwards and upwards slowly.

Even if you have no other risk factors for high BP (overweight, unfit, poor diet, smoker, heart, kidney problems etc) you will still see an increase in BP over time. Hope that makes sense!

The Lancet published an article a couple of days ago suggesting that covid-19 isnt just a respiratory disease but also a vascular disease. That could have implications.

@Xenia It’s interesting about obesity and Covid 19 I thought that it could be linked to being overweight from the beginning .
Like you I always look at the photos of the people who have passed away.
But I also noticed that a lot of them even when they said no underlying conditions were generally very very overweight. And generally had a big noticeable stomach

One main photo of a lady was about 13 years old and she was slim in the photo . The other more recent photo taken a month before she passed away showed her at a wedding and she was very very overweight . So if you don’t look any further at the article or just read the headlines you would assume that a youngish slim fit and healthy mother had died .

Another lady was young maybe late twenties early thirties and again had no underlying conditions but was very very overweight. But again if you just read the headlines and didn’t look at the picture you would think young healthy mother died .

Being overweight has always been a bad thing for our health being very very overweight is certainly not good for you health but unfortunately if you say anything your fat shaming and people really don’t like it .

I am not in a high risk group but I am a size 16. This has made me really think about the short term risks to my health, and not just the long term ones. It's given me a bit of a wake up call actually.

Agree with you justmee. Members of DH’s family have T2 diabetes. It is a devastating condition that IMO is downplayed and the dietary advice from the NHS is poor. I’m strict with DD’s sugar intake because of what I’ve seen. As well as being accused of fat shaming for saying it’s not desirable to be overweight I also notice that if you try to limit your DC’s sugar intake a lot of other mums don’t like it and you’re thought of as extreme. Wanting to be within BMI is extreme now; being overweight is the norm.

According to studies done in UK and USA the risk factors are

• Sex (69% men)
• Obesity
• Diabetes (often related to being obese)
• Hypertension
• Age

Many NHS staff are overweight and combined with any other factor above, makes then very vulnerable. Smoking or compromised immune system seem not to be nearly as important as the above. I am assuming the PC brigade do not want it known that being overweight is an issue?

"Many NHS staff are overweight and combined with any other factor above, makes then very vulnerable. "

Nurses maybe, but doctors?

@ GeraniumJohnsonsBlue
It’s good that this has made you think about your health .
Like I wrote above lots of the people that have died and it’s been mentioned that they have no underlying conditions are often very very overweight.
Being overweight has never ever been a good thing but because we aren’t allowed to say that it’s been pretty much acceptable that being overweight is ok

What I don't understand here is India.

If Indian people are more at risk because of a complex mix of genetic susceptibility and lifestyle factors then why are we not seeing higher death rates in India?

Most people there don't have the cultural mindset or indeed the physical ability to socially distance properly. I know they are a few weeks behind Europe and I also know that due to there will be many Indians who are undocumentated and unable to access hospital treatment or testing, so I don't expect the number of reported cases be to hugely accurate. However, I would expect to see the number of confirmed covid 19 deaths to be a more accurate reflection of the true state of events.

So far, with 16,000 odd confirmed cases they've had 521 deaths.

When the UK was at 521 deaths we had only 9,000 odd cases.

If it is an unarguable truth that Indian people are at more risk of dying than Caucasians, why is that death rate per thousand of confirmed and tested people not much much higher? Even if the figures are not fully accurate, you'd still expect to see a higher death rate than the UK in proportionate terms, wouldn't you?

"If Indian people are more at risk because of a complex mix of genetic susceptibility and lifestyle factors then why are we not seeing higher death rates in India?"

My friend who is a doctor told me some of the issues are specifically with Indian people living in the Uk or British people of Indian descent. It's a combination of genes and lifestyle, not just one or the other apparently.

If it’s to do with vitamin D levels that would explain why it’s much less of an issue in India.

However the other thing to say is that we don’t know yet what the figures will look like across the board. It’s early days for many countries.

Yes, I do try to be careful not to let my own prejudices or views (that people should eat healthy foods and will be better for that and keep slimmer etc) taint how I treat scientific facts. it is easy to end up applying my own bias. Eg more men may have it because they go out more than women rather than because more older men have more big tummies than women. I agfree on picture. That lovely NHS nurse who with the portuguese man saved the PM (and I hope they both can get an OBE on behalf of all nurses) on one press picture was slim and on another a fair bit larger - no that she has caught but it does show even the pictures issued are not always up to date. BJ was very sick with a biggish tummy and his thin girl friend was not.

However it is very hard to lose weight for most people (trying to lose a stone myself at present hence interest in weight) and I certainly don't want us blaming victims. I do think the NHS should not have any chocolate or sweets or drinks other than water in its premises ever and any food it is sending out to peoplat home sholdl be full of healthy foods like eggs, tinned fish etc NOT chocolate biscuits and other unhealthy junk.

[Just came in from 40 glorious minutes in April sunshine in the garden - I feel utterly full of vitamin D and much nicer than yesterday when the sun didn't come out.....]

I agree that many doctors are not obese in the NHS whatever their nationality or ethnic origins - our practice has about 16 GPs, all but 4 are Asian, mostly Indian and most are very very thin young women who are very healthy. (I live in a majority non white London borough with lots of those of Indian origin).

"A waist size of 31.5 in a S Asian woman is considered problematic."

Not encouraged in white women either according to Diabetes UK. It's with men that they make a difference for ethnicity.

www.diabetes.co.uk/waist-measurement-diabetes-risk.html

I had a waist around 31 inches while still fitting into a size 12, leading to fierce arguments on MN that nobody should ever argue that a size 12 is too fat. It can be according to this if you are a bit straight up and down.

So far, with 16,000 odd confirmed cases they've had 521 deaths.

the magic word is confirmed I suspect the real number is much, much higher.

"more men may have it because they go out more than women rather than because more older men have more big tummies than women. "

We don't know that more men have it though do we, only that more men have complications?
Or do we have stats from countries that test mild cases too?

@ GeraniumJohnsonsBlue
Maybe they are fudging the figures
But more likely like above it’s a combination of genes and the western lifestyle
And possibly they may get more vitamin D naturally due to the weather
Where’s in the U.K maybe nowhere near as much

I had a waist around 31 inches while still fitting into a size 12, leading to fierce arguments on MN that nobody should ever argue that a size 12 is too fat. It can be according to this if you are a bit straight up and down

I dream of being a size 12 again and I am at that age where my midriff has taken on a life of its own. However, although I had a much nicer hourglass shape and better proportions at a size 12 than I do at my current size 16, I am quite short and in terms of BMI it absolutely cannot be argued that I was still a bit on the fat side.

Gwen, good point and just the kind of assumption I was trying to avoid. It is possible more women than men get it but it does not affect us quite so badly or we don't make such a fuss over it as men and we instead get a very long nasty version at home that gets little publicity.

Indians in India will get more Vit D I suppose. Also in a lot of cultures which move or "modernise" they can start eating awful Western sugary foods - look at those poor Samoans - some of the fattest people on earth which was not the case when they lived mostly on the fish they caught.