All the doctors dying are Asian - what’s going on?

[MMXVi]

And why is nobody asking questions about this?

I’m over-invested in the answer because my sister is a doctor very much on the frontline, and we’re of Indian ethnicity. I want her to be protected and if she’s facing some sort of additional genetic, behavioural or dietary risk I want that flagged up to her and other doctors PDQ, not to mention their patients of the same ethnicity.

If I see another glib and possibly slightly racist response about BAME people being poorer and therefore more prone to underlying conditions I’ll flip my lid totally by the way. There’s a world of difference between an Asian hospital consultant on £150k in stockbrokerville and someone Asian on the breadline in an overcrowded council flat, and it isn’t helpful to lump them together in this instance.

So far, I’ve seen a thread about Vitamin D3 deficiency making darker-skinned people more susceptible to respiratory illness. That makes sense to me, and I’ve already ordered some from Amazon for my sister as well as the rest of our family.

My mother (not medically qualified) has a touching belief in the anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic powers of turmeric so I’m making daal as we speak.

My dad (retired very senior doctor and the veteran of more than one pandemic) says probably multi-factorial, but as he’s currently recovering from cancer and therefore very high risk, I’m not going to make him elaborate.

Any other ideas and theories?

Anyone else concerned about why the press have neglected to mention this glaringly obvious information?

Everyone of my generation had a BCG scratch test at 13, administered by school nurse health programme, followed by vaccination six weeks later if the response wasn't adequate. DM was a very junior Paed nurse in the 50s when tb cases were nursed outdoors in winter.

www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-46

Would older Asian doctors have had the BCG or not? Massive generalisation I know, but that seems to be arising as a preventative factor.

My Asian BIL has just had his test confirmed he has been very very poorly in the last two weeks - two visits to the A&E with breathing difficulties- he wasn’t admitted. The only reason he was tested is my sister works in the hospital and they needed it confirmed so she could get back to work. She is white - about ten days ago had a bit of headache but no temperature but no other symptoms so hasn’t been tested - it’s assumed that she has had it.
Both are similar ages, healthy, don’t smoke and are vegetarian. Not overweight either. But he has been very very poorly and still now is very very tired - where as my sister is and has been fine.

Apparently 72% of NHS staff who have died have been people of colour.
But only 17% NHS staff are people of colour.

Whatname, sorry about your brother in law.

(Baba, that might because London and the Midlands and cities are where CV has struck first however where there are more no-white NHS staff than say in Northern Scotland or NI or Cornwall).

Ginger, thanks for that link which includes

“40 % of the reported COVID-19 related deaths occurring in Stockholm involve the Somali diaspora communities”; yet they only represent 0.84% of the population] [10, 11, 12, 13] Data clearly shows, Somalis, and wider immigrant groups, are D deficient, for example, “Vitamin D deficiency ( 

ERm, I don't thnk it did quote the deleted post actually - it merely referenced it. There's an important difference. If Mimishimi needs banning then ban them, but for the love of God, stop stifling free speech and robust debate. It's getting ridiculous.

I knew before I even opened the news links today that the latest dead doctor would be Asian, and indeed he was. RIP Dr Tun from Burma.

A new theory I’ve heard today about the disproportionate deaths is the distribution of body fat - in particular abdominal fat - which prevents the lungs functioning properly. Apparently the same gene that makes Asians more likely to develop Type 2 diabetes despite not eating a diet particularly high in sugars.

Increasingly I do think systemic racism is also a possible cause. Are the BAME doctors and nurses deliberately being given the most shit jobs (looking after the most ill patients)? Are they last in the queue for PPE?

They really need to down tools.

But they won’t.

Really useful thread OP, I had been noticing the high number of BAME staff dying. It’s definitely an issue which needs investigation.

Are BAME people a higher proportion of the general death rate as well or is it that doctors, nurses etc are having so much more contact that they just have more risk of contracting the virus.

The latter, I believe, @walking, although the PP who gave the latest stats didn’t give a source for the figures.

A lot of these immigrant medics have also had to sustain their entire careers in their second (even third) language.

Which makes it difficult to articulate your worries -or your rage - to your management.

What an absolute shitshow.

First line cannon fodder to preserve the white British doctors. Like 1917 all over again.

I hope your sister is okay

Thanks @Action. She is, so far, and in good spirits remarkably. I am so, so worried about her and her BAME friends though. Obviously also very angry now on their behalf. Not to dismiss the worries about white doctors too, but this is an added level of worry that they simply don’t have.

MMX, the NHS tends to treat most doctors equally - they are very privileged educated people. Almost 100% of the 15 Gps at my NHS practice are Asian. My doctor relatives work with loads of often very senior doctors who are Asian and there is no way they are shunted into poor work or not handed a mask where white doctors are given masks. I really don't think you need to worry too much on that score.

Are the BAME doctors and nurses deliberately being given the most shit jobs (looking after the most ill patients)? Are they last in the queue for PPE?

What do you mean given the most shit jobs? Surely they apply for the jobs they have.

I’ve just seen pictures of the nurse who died, after her poor darling baby was delivered. She was on maternity leave, but nonetheless she, too, was black.

I don’t think we can take much more of this. The non-white population fucking matters too.

I take it you’ve never seen an allocation board on a shift, @AnnUumellemahaye ?

A lot of these immigrant medics have also had to sustain their entire careers in their second (even third) language.

Which makes it difficult to articulate your worries -or your rage - to your management.

No. Sorry but no. That is nonsense. If a doctor can practice effectively in a second or third language then they can most certainly express their feelings in that same language. You are being silly now and letting your fear and anger cloud your judgement.

I understand that you are upset but you are wrong that BAME medics are given the shit jobs. It's really offensive to all the people working in the NHS to suggest that.

Living in London all the GPs and Consultants I've seen in recent years have been BAME. They have all been superb.

Absolute bullshit, @Ann. I have a practical working knowledge of French and Italian, sufficient for translating papers and do my job effectively, but there’s no way I would be able to come off best in a moral argument with a native speaker - it’s nonsense to even suggest it.

There is a minimum language proficiency exam for medics to work in the UK, and if you’ve ever seen it, it is very minimal!

Just because your language skills are lacking it doesn’t mean other peoples are.

Fair point SimonJT!

Someone ought to ask the first generation immigrant medics though, not us.

I don’t think we can take much more of this. The non-white population fucking matters too.

What are you trying to say?

No-one has suggested they don't matter or that they matter less. I am sure that people are being treated equally in hospital whatever their ethnicity. But you yourself said in your OP that the disproportionate deaths among BAME people can't be explained away merely by socio-economic factors and culture so there has to be a biological explanation. I'm sorry but the blame for that cannot be laid at the feet of white people.