All the doctors dying are Asian - what’s going on?

[MMXVi]

And why is nobody asking questions about this?

I’m over-invested in the answer because my sister is a doctor very much on the frontline, and we’re of Indian ethnicity. I want her to be protected and if she’s facing some sort of additional genetic, behavioural or dietary risk I want that flagged up to her and other doctors PDQ, not to mention their patients of the same ethnicity.

If I see another glib and possibly slightly racist response about BAME people being poorer and therefore more prone to underlying conditions I’ll flip my lid totally by the way. There’s a world of difference between an Asian hospital consultant on £150k in stockbrokerville and someone Asian on the breadline in an overcrowded council flat, and it isn’t helpful to lump them together in this instance.

So far, I’ve seen a thread about Vitamin D3 deficiency making darker-skinned people more susceptible to respiratory illness. That makes sense to me, and I’ve already ordered some from Amazon for my sister as well as the rest of our family.

My mother (not medically qualified) has a touching belief in the anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic powers of turmeric so I’m making daal as we speak.

My dad (retired very senior doctor and the veteran of more than one pandemic) says probably multi-factorial, but as he’s currently recovering from cancer and therefore very high risk, I’m not going to make him elaborate.

Any other ideas and theories?

Anyone else concerned about why the press have neglected to mention this glaringly obvious information?

Definitely agree with the point about inhabitants of hot and sunny countries not necessarily being replete in D3. Countries where it’s too hot to be outside for most of the year, or where there’s a competing healthcare issue like skin cancer.

Interesting observation about attitudes towards authority and conflicting advice from PHE. I read somewhere that the Kiwis are having excellent results from lockdown because their premier commands such moral authority. How different from our own dear leader.

Actually, Boris is relevant as his behaviour is illustrative of another risk factor: the willingness to work through discomfort and descend into illness. If your occupation has a vocational or even - as may have been the case with several of the doctors- religious importance to you, it’s going to put you in danger.

Yes stress and lack of sleep would deplete the immune system as well, as you say. OP if it were me I would take plenty vitamin D, get levels checked perhaps (I have darker skin and was deficient and with a mouth spray got tested again and was OK) and depending on circumstances maybe be really careful in terms of shielding / distancing until more is known about this. Lots of self care, eating well, sleeping, rest and exercise. Take care

What an interesting but sad discussion.

Funnily enough OP I thought the same. For many doctors they go above and beyond to help, even if it means that they get sick in the process. I know myself lots of religious people in the community who do so much volunteer work, on top of their jobs as they consider it important to their faith.

I could totally see the mindset where you keep pushing even when you’re ill and very sadly reach the tipping point. The only reason BJ is recovering is that a doctor over video conference told him he had to go to the doctor. He was just ploughing through each day with the expectation he would suddenly feel better. Would would have most likely happened is he would have a had a huge heart attack over night or been rushed to hospital and placed on a ventilator and that would have been that.

I do think it is time to ask whether our fear of sunlight has gone too far.

Also some darker skinned people may be affected by internalised racism in that they do not want to be darker than they are and therefore use high SPF sun cream unnecessarily or avoid the sun. I know people who think like this.

I am going to say something that shocks people. I grew up in India. I never ever used sun cream. It wasn’t a ‘thing.’ My parents weren’t being negligent. They are/were highly educated University professors. Now in hindsight I am not sure this was a good thing per se but I am always slightly startled by how averse people are in the U.K. to sunlight. I absolutely crave it.
(Where I grew up the summer sees 40 degree temperatures and 90+% humidity and no one plays outside then to be fair. But we played outside in school every single day with no sun cream in sight). Also interestingly I was much darker skinned in India, my skin has become a lot lighter after 20+ years of living in the West.

When I was growing up suncream was expensive. I only remember Ambre Solaire and we only got it for holidays when we went to the seaside. I am red haired and remember getting sunburnt. My siblings are all olive skinned and tan well and they were always tanned as they never had suncream. We just couldn't afford it. Babies used to have suntans!

The tricky thing is that asian skins don't absorb the same amount of vit d, even if it causes tanning...see here. It takes lots longer. I think supplements might be the answer, a friend who is asian tells me they all take them as their DC became deficient even after lots of time in the sun. And if you think about doctors working long shifts, limited sun exposure there anyway.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/how-to-get-vitamin-d-from-sunlight/
People with dark skin, such as those of African, African-Caribbean or south Asian origin, will need to spend longer in the sun to produce the same amount of vitamin D as someone with lighter skin.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5466148/

Also of course skin cancer is a risk. (sunbathing) Not only for white skins although red hair types are more vulnerable there.

My poor neighbour is terrified about this. The family are all of Pakistani descent. Her husband is a consultant dealing with the virus on the front line in a busy city hospital. Hes so worried about passing it to her or their DCs hes not been home for weeks and is living in a campervan. Every now and then he comes and stands on the driveway to talk to them.

On top of all that theres the added worry identified in this thread

Fear of sun has hugely gone too far. We also didn’t use sun cream growing up. We would just wear a tshirt after we had had enough sun. Every kid had a light tan in the summer. I don’t believe that this causes melanoma. A week frying in Spain? Yes. A light tan in the UK? No. Will help your immune system though

I never use sun cream in the UK, only when abroad. I sit in an office all day normally and it's dark and miserable over 6 months of year here, so I will enjoy the sun when it is out! Not bothered about wrinkles or sunspots.

Just a thought but maybe people with ancestors from warmer climates didn't really suffer from things like the flu. Maybe in the past those from cooler climates without a natural resistance died more frequently (therefore didnt pass on their genes) than those with a natural resistance.

Not sure if this a controversal idea or not.

I had wondered this and not just medical staff, the majority of cases where the people are being named also.

It’s also because these hideous people having multi household BBQs and going out are directly responsible for the deaths of our wonderful NHS staff and frontline workers.
Ethic background might be less of an issue if our NHS were not exposed to such high volumes of cases and viral load in the first place. No idea how long it would take to build up Vit D but it would be instant impact if people stayed home. So sorry for your lovely families xx

#SerialKillers.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/10/uk-coronavirus-deaths-bame-doctors-bma

The head of the British Medical Association has called on the government to urgently investigate if and why black, Asian and minority ethnic people are more vulnerable to Covid-19,
after the first 10 doctors in the UK named as having died from the virus were all BAME.

Those doctors have ancestry in regions including Asia, the Middle East and Africa

Even allowing for the overrepresentation of BAME staff in the NHS
– they comprise 44% of medical staff compared with 14% of the population of England and Wales –

the fact that they were all from ethnic minorities was “extremely disturbing and worrying”, the BMA chair said.

“At face value, it seems hard to see how this can be random – to have the first 10 doctors of all being of BAME background,”
Dr Chaand Nagpaul said.

“Not only that, we also know that in terms of the BAME population, they make up about a third of those in intensive care.

There’s a disproportionate percentage of BAME people getting ill.

It's very likely simply because lockdown happened too late to protect cities, and cities are where BAME communities tend to live.

I noticed that too. I've temped at a lot of Hospitals in the Midlands & London, I'd say 75% of the Dr's there were Asian. All my Asian friends growing up, ended up in medicine too, as Dr's or Pharmacists , it was seen as a highly desirable career.

The NHS have recommended for years that everyone should take a daily vitamin d supplement.

MMX, although it is not just NZ who are compliant. We share their compliant culture and the UK is apparently the best nation in Europe at complying www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209435/Ninety-percent-Britons-following-governments-stay-home-rules.html (although I know newspapers like the sensationalise it differently)

Medicine (and law - my career) are very good careers. If you come here from abroad or your parents did you tend to want your children to work extremely hard, pass lots of exams and do well. I often mannd the law career stand at my children's schools and a lot of the Asian parents very sensibly wanted their children to be doctors or lawyers - careers with relatively difficult exams most people cannot pay and high pay etc.

I heard on Radio 4 this morning the US has had to make a lot of effort to scotch the myth / fake news among some of the black community that you cannot catch COVID 19 if you are black which is totally wrong.

@Xenia I watch a lot of comedy clips on YouTube and a few days ago was watching with horror as Trevor Noah had compiled clips from other sources where commentators were saying African Americans in the US couldn't get Covid-19.

This is just as ignorant as those of faith of all ethnicities saying they cannot get which is why Churches should stay open.

I agree that UK BAME has to be broken down into specifics in order to mean anything. It's a shame that so many people generally don't know about vitamin D deficiency, as NHS guidance has been for a while that we all take vitamin D in the winter months (tbh it hasn't been promoted very well as a concept). Guidance does include that if you are BAME it should taken throughout the year, 'If you have dark skin – for example you have an African, African-Caribbean or south Asian background – you may also not get enough vitamin D from sunlight.
You should consider taking a daily supplement containing 10 micrograms of vitamin D throughout the year.'

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

Yet more Asian doctors and nurses amongst the latest dead named. Totally disproportionate when the demographics are examined.

This is getting way beyond any coincidence and is appalling - we need questions asked in parliament, not just in online forums.

I bet if the BAME doctors and nurses withdrew their services en masse until their safety to work was properly assessed, Hancock would shit his pants.

Thank you to all who have expressed concern for my sister. She’s safe and well so far, although she hasn’t had a day off since 18th March.

BtW @Xenia, were you active on Roll on Friday?