Northamptonshire Police Chief Constable Nick Adderley threatens to ramp up police response to Coranavirus

[YangShanPo]

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/coronavirus-police-could-start-searching-shopping-trolleys-as-people-continue-to-flout-lockdown/ar-BB12ns13

I realise this is an individual chief constable and he doesn't speak for the entire police policy but what is he on about with this 'grace period' and how can they plan to target shoppers rather than clamp down on what can be sold. He also says;

“So the nuances and the interpretation is really ambiguous – that’s why I’m saying to officers, use your common sense, use your discretion. I think the guidance could be even clearer, but it’s where do you draw the line

Speaking about the new approach, Adderley said: "These are not guidelines anymore. This is the law.”

So what does that mean the law is down to the common sense of the officer you happen to meet?

Thing is you can only be out with a 'reasonable excuse'. So it is entirely subjective what is reasonable.
I guess if they are being over the top then you choose not to accept a fixed penalty and opt to take it to court

It seems like a minority of police are going all out to destroy the morale the rest of the force are maintaining.

Anyone trying to search my shopping bags would get short shrift and a guided explanation of what the Regulations actually say (lawyer here, who has read them), rather than what some police seem to wish they said.

Thing is you can only be out with a 'reasonable excuse'. So it is entirely subjective what is reasonable

Not entirely subjective at all.

The legislation doesn't say 'you can only leave home with a reasonable excuse ' and then leave it hanging there.

It continues

' a reasonable excuse includes the need

to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies

To take exercise either alone or with other members of their household'

And so on.

This is still open to interpretation in that for example while it's plainly lawful to go out for a 6 hour bike ride, it might not be lawful to go out for say 3 separate 1 hour bike rides, in that you could argue that the subsequent bike rides are no longer a need to take exercise. And a professional cyclist might have such a 'need', just as a certain dog 'needs' two walks a day.

But it's clearly not entirely subjective, only somewhat subjective, especially as the government failed to give any notes clarifying the legality of say going out for a single lemon for your fish dinner or whatever.

No one on my team is fining anyone, we are asking the questions about what people are doing in the vain hope that people other than the utter saints on here are going to start using their common sense and abiding by the guidelines. The legislation such as it is written is a fucking mess, it is weak and contradictory

You are making it sounds like the majority is not complying with the laws, when it's actually the majority who is, and a very small minority who aren't.

You shouldn't be anywhere near supermarkets unless you've been called in over an incident.

The legislation is very clear, it's the fact that people keep trying to make it stricter than it is, that is the problem. Admittedly I am a lawyer, but I have no difficulty in understanding it. The people who are having difficulties are merely annoyed that it is not as restrictive as they want it to be.

@eurochick

If you are actually a lawyer, you should realise that existing S&S powers could extend to this Act.

Unlikely to be used in the current circumstances but they do exist.

Wow cologne, never said I was going to any supermarket! I have however asked people what they're doing when I've pulled them over in the middle of the night and all the shops are shut, is that ok?

This is stupid. Our local supermarket still has strict limits on essentials like bread and potatoes etc so yes I am buying crisps and chocolate as I have to feed us something. If they want people to do a once a week shop for essential food then the shops need to be able to provide enough of that essential food so that I can buy a weeks worth in one go

I would say that officer is being a twat. It's quite clear that the govt want us only to be shopping for essential items so it reduces our trips to the shops and we aren't just popping out for things that we could do without until the next big shop. If we are going to the supermarket for actual food, or other essentials such as loo roll, it clearly doesn't matter a stuff whether we pop some beer/chocolate/cake in the trolley as well.

Fenella I agree. We've been given no real guidance. No PPE. No support. People spitting at us in the street claiming to have Covid. Most of us have young children and elderly parents. We're chronically short staffed. Demand has fallen in the number of incidents where I work, but that means that every job contains risk as people aren't ringing unless necessary. We're being told to search dead bodies who it is believed died of Covid, without masks and gloves. I have told my staff to stop people out and about and ask why they are there. The people with genuine reasons have had no issue with it. They haven't been in a supermarket unless it is to buy themselves some food. Morale is through the floor.

I was sent home earlier this week with symptoms. This is following a member of my team sitting in a car with a missing person that he found, that the hospital had reported missing. He sat with them for 2 hours waiting for an ambulance before driving them to hospital himself. They died the following day from CV. He had no PPE with him. He wasn't allowed to isolate as he had no symptoms. Now he has, and so have I. I'm waiting on the results of a test and my 7 year old son has chronic lung disease. I couldn't give a fuck if anyone thinks their right to chocolate outweighs my son's right to life.

I think there is a difference between popping out for a bottle of wine and an Easter egg to adding a bottle of wine and Easter Eggs to your weekly shop.
Surely it's not what you buy but about reducing the amount of trips you do.
If someone is happy to live off toast chocolate buttons and wine for a week if that's what they buy so be it as long as in 2 days time they don't pop out again for salad,veg,milk and chicken breasts.

Fenella

Fuck sake.

As we keep telling each other 10 storey, chin up what's the worst that can happen ffs. I've got everything crossed for you. It's just utter turd and feels very much like just another excuse for the fuck the police gang to put the boot in a bit x

@Fenellapitstop Unfortunately there is a lot of inconsistency in policing - it seems, in many areas, to be dependent on what the Chief Constable's particular hobby horse happens to be.

The frustration to many is that real crime seems to be ignored a lot of the time. In my small town there was a spate of vans being broken in by gangs from the Big Bad City. Police didn't attend; there were no police patrols to deter the criminals or even - God forbid - to try and catch them red-handed. YET someone reported that children were playing on the swings in the park the other day and a patrol car appeared within minutes. (The kids had gone obviously, so it was all a complete waste of time)

Police rummaging around in people's shopping is totally ridiculous.

I do appreciate the police especially those officers on the frontlines putting themselves at risk to keep us safe. So thanks to you guys for that (essential) and

But we have all seen the news stories of stricter lockdown in Europe that are being very strongly policed and wonder if that could be on the cards for us with the death toll rising and the sunny weather over the Easter weekend. So that is why we get concerned when there is talk of a crackdown from a high up police officer especially when the current guidelines are very open to interpretation in some cases.

The legislation right now is poorly written, a harder lock down is likely but the people who don't follow rules will continue not following rules/guidelines while blaming the police

10storey I really hope your test comes back negative.

to all police. We had a policewoman at the door today because someone stole a bike in our street. I wanted to say thank you to her for being out and doing her job but wasn’t sure how to put it without sounding mad.

@breckenridged honestly, just a simple thanks would have meant all the world. I've been in the job 12 years now, and didn't sign up for applause and thanks. I was front line in the Manchester riots, stood for 12 hours without a drink in the heat of summer in full riot gear, carrying a shield and having bricks thrown at my head from high rise flats. I was an intelligence officer during the aftermath of the Manchester bomb and saw and heard some horrific things (my friends were first responders). I have held someone's chest after they've been stabbed, trying to stem the blood. Ive held people up when hanging on more than occasion, and given CPR when cut down, one a 13 year old girl who later died. I have seen and done things that the average person couldn't imagine, as have all of my colleagues.

I can honestly tell you that I have never been as scared to go to work as I have been the past month or so. I can see it on the faces on my PCs when I send them back out again, without any PPE, and try to keep them positive. I could see it on the face of the young officer who has grown a beard since he was 18, and shaved it off to be fitted for a mask, only to fail the fitting (out of 50 officers that day only 2 passed). He still has to attend the Covid deaths, as well as every other incident where people may be carrying it, and he lives with his nan. I could see it when a PC burst into tears crying as her and her daughter have asthma, but hasn't had a shielding letter so still has to come to work. I could hear it in the voice of the young man who's elderly parents still live in Brazil, and who's mum keeps phoning each day, crying that she might never see him alive again and who's wedding in Brazil has been cancelled later in the year. I could see it in face of the officer who had only been in the job a few weeks and asked someone to disperse from a BBQ in the car park of a flat block, and was grabbed by her hair and pulled to the ground, spat on and kicked.

I could go and and on and on. So the next time an officer asks you where your going, or God forbid what you have in your shopping basket, please remember that they are human, they are scared, they are putting themselves in harms way and they are just doing as they are told.

10storey I know you didn’t sign up for thanks but... thanks. It’s absolutely shit that the police aren’t given the protection and respect that they’re due. I imagine it’s going to be a rough weekend for a lot of your colleagues.

By the way - I’ve seen dozens of FB posts about supporting the NHS (and rightly so) but nothing about supporting the police. Maybe they are circulating and just haven’t come my way but if you wrote something similar to the above (if you use FB and are allowed to do so...) I bet it would get a lot of shares. Might just change a few people’s minds.