Any ideas for elderly parents situation?

[OlivesandLemons]

My elderly parents live around 2 hours from me and my sibling. Both my sibling and I are classed as "vulnerable" being high-risk pregnant and asthmatic (me) and severely asthmatic (sibling), and so we are not venturing out and are getting grocery deliveries.

We've been checking on on our parents virtually. Unfortunately my mother is a very difficult woman at the best of times, and try as we might, we have not been able to prevent her from 'popping to the shops', taking her car in for a service and meeting up with a friend in their 90's! It is quite frustrating. She is still pretty able and seems to think she's invincible. We have been extremely clear about what she needs to do, and we have also helped organise local grocery deliveries and the offer of support from a local community group to ensure that things can be brought to them and so there is no need at all for her to go out. They have a lovely garden so they can sit out there all day safely. Our father is in very poor health and also has dementia, so my mother does almost everything in terms of cooking and looking after him. He can slowly walk and gradually get himself dressed but needs guidance as he gets confused. Prior to Coronavirus happening we were thinking about his next steps and had decided that a conversation about a care home ought to happen with our parents, but this got put on hold with everything that happened.

Anyway, my mother reported that she had a cough 2 days ago, but this has since disappeared. My sibling suggested that if our mother gets ill and has to go into hospital, that they would have to come out of isolation to go up and look after our father. However my sibling has very severe asthma and I really don't think this would be sensible. As much as my father would need looking after if my mother was taken into hospital, it seems the wrong choice to put my sibling at risk.

Does anyone know what people can do on this situation? If my father remained well (ie no Coronavirus) then we wouldn't want him to use up a valuable hospital bed, but at the same time our mother is his carer and if she ends up in hospital he will need caring for somehow.

What is the possible solution here in the current climate and has anyone else experienced this?

(By the way there are no other family members).

Bumping for lunch time

If my father remained well (ie no Coronavirus) then we wouldn't want him to use up a valuable hospital bed,
You are in luck then because your father, if he is well would not be taken to hospital under any circumstances.

If your mother needed hospitalisation due to CV, as long as your father doesn't have it, then I think the only option would be for you or your sibling to move in and look after him. Who else could do it?

I don't know whether it would be possible for your father to be tested for CV if that situation arose. That way your minds could be put at rest so that you could care for him without fear of contracting the virus.

I wouldn't put him in a care home at the moment as that might be more risky for your father.

I would move in, clean his home thoroughly and, as long as he is clear of symptoms, look after him at home.

I would create an emergency carers plan of action in the case of your mother being ill.
See www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-covid-19
I would register your dad as vulnerable and would probably get the telephone number for adult social care for the area your parents live in so that if necessary you can make contact.

However, they're really stretched so you may need to have numbers of other local friends that could support in the interim period.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandwhite thank you for this. I'm not really comfortable with either of us doing that though, because my pregnancy is high risk and I'm asthmatic, and my sibling has severe asthma and is also at risk.

@solomummy thank you, that's a helpful link

It's very difficult OP😔 but if I was you I would not put myself at risk

With regards your asthma, are you on the shielding list?

If not then you may have to review not going to your dad. Would you really want him left alone for what could well be days, possibly longer, in the current climate as care agencies are really stretched.
There are people at end of their lives who haven't at this time got their carers due to how stretched they are.

So where does your priority lie? Your health versus his. You'd obviously be able to take appropriate precautions and perhaps could use this time to source such ppe equipment.

I would ring this helpline and see what advice they can offer. www.dementiauk.org/dementia-uk-coronavirus-advice/

You'd need to contact adult social services, and they would either provide emergency carers to go into your dad, or find a respite care home place for you. They are overstretched, but were absolutely amazing 2 weeks ago when my mum needed a place same day and got her into a home

Your dad, if well , would not be taken into hospital or given a bed if your mother becomes ill.

You need to speak to your mother and point out that what she is doing is effecting everyone and that if she becomes ill it will have a knock on effect on everyone. if she still doesn't care about your father's health then you need to put a plan in place just incase she becomes ill as your father wouldn't be able to care for himself.

@solomummy it's so difficult, but I don't think I'm prepared to risk my baby's life and my own. I am high risk pregnant (not related to my asthma diagnosis).

I need to find an alternative solution. Very difficult circumstances.

Your options are carers coming in or a care home - adult social services can arrange emergency respite, after which it's means tested

Yes I agree @Lipz absolutely. She is narcissistic and there seems to be no way of getting through to her- believe me we have tried.

Thank you @okiedokieme

Social services are what you need. They will assess and arrange home care or respite as appropriate.

I cannot believe the selfishness of some older people. Why on earth do they not get that its not all about them and what they want to do. They seem to think its all about how they feel 'I feel OK, or I am careful when I am out'.

Who will your Mother ring when things go wrong? It will be you. So therefore why dont you say if she falls ill (through her own fault) what does she envisage happening.

Let her talk, I lectured my Mother who goes out but only a couple of times a week now and only to the local shop. I made the mistake of going on and on and on and it was suddenly clear when I was speaking to her that she had literally switched off.

By getting her to describe what she thinks is going to happen with you NOT SAYING A WORD you might get some clue as to where her mind is in all of this.

If of course she comes out with some nonsense about having to go out, nothing will happen to her etc you can calmly state what will actually happen. Be very clear that you will need to speak to Emergency SS to move your Father into a home. Is she OK with this or like most elderly parents that I know will she fully expect you to sort it all out?

@sunglasses123 yes I know- it's absolutely infuriating! She isn't thinking about anyone else whatsoever, but then, she never has. She has never been able to see beyond the tip of her own nose and she always inflates her own minor problems so that they usurp everything else going on in the world. Her needs come first.

I think the idea of setting up a care plan is a good one. She will be the one to contribute to that by providing details of my fathers prescriptions, GP etc, and then I can try and talk her through the next steps- as you suggest by asking her to reflect on them. She will baulk at the idea of outside Carers / social services being involved but I don't care. Does she realise for example that she will be putting her children's lives at risk, and that of her unborn grandchild?

I would contact adult social services and put your health and your baby first. If your dad was in his right mind he wouldn't want you and your sister to risk your health.

Assuming that you are in England (not sure about the rest of UK), start by going onto their local council website. With luck there is a big Covid-19 banner at the top and a link to a webpage that will cover "vulnerable people".

My council might be a bit ahead of the game, but the Clinical Commisioning Group and council have set up a call centre to help residents with just such issues, triaging calls to the right specialists.

Wishing you the best.

Your DF wouldn't be given a hospital bed so don't worry on that score.
You'd have to contact social services urgently who would sort carers or an emergency respite place, likely means tested. Carers would be three or four visits a day max which may well still leave your DF at risk for long periods.
Under no circumstances do you risk your own health or pregnancy and move in.. With respect, your DF is likely nearing the end of his life and would surely if he were aware, not want you to do that? You and your sister must absolutely prioritise yourselves and your own family.
Now is the time to think hard long term about what happens to your DF if your DM passes first. Or if your DM needs care as she ages. She can baulk all she wants at carers but her wants do not trump yours.

Has your mum really considered the impact of her trips out? That it could lead as you say to threatening the lives of her other family members if they move in, threatening the life of your DF if he catches it from her or is admitted to a care home and catches CV there, taking carer resources at a time when they are stretched so thin by people who need them through no fault of their own, taking up nhs resources herself....all so she could pop to the shops?

It sounds like she probably is unable to take this in or process it, but don't be afraid to spell out all the potential consequences in very graphic detail. Also I agree about her setting up a contingency plan. Why should you? You're not the one bringing about the need for it.

He would need an admission to residential/nursing care. If your mums GP admitted her they would also have a duty of care to ensure he is looked after too so a referral to social services etc

I would kindly but firmly take her through the consequences and tell her that if she's happy to take the risk then she better be happy to deal with the consequences

My elderly father is still “popping out” nearly every day, which apparently is ok as he’s keeping his distance from everyone. Anywhere from Tesco to diy shop to work. I’ve given up trying to explain why he shouldn’t - I’ve been understanding, blunt, brutal, pleading, every possible tack. Over and over. Mostly ignored. I can’t keep on doing it, it’s pointless and I’m wasting oxygen. He just has to take his chances, as I can’t camp outside his front door and physically stop him.

My grandmother is also considered vulnerable (in her 80s and has health conditions) and she pops to the shop most days, a shop which is always chocoblocked with people! She's a stubborn woman who just doesn't listen! I'm in my late 20s with no underlying health conditions and I'm indoors more than she is! I feel your frustration OP!