Has their been a change of opinion about lockdown?

[Maryann1975]

So three weeks ago, all I heard about was why weren’t the government locking everything down quickly enough. There was such outrage about it at the time, how bad it was that the government hadn’t shut schools quickly enough, that people were still mixing and big events were still going ahead.

We are now at The start of week three of the ‘lockdown’ (which wasn’t really a full lockdown, But I’m not really sure what to call the period we are in) and people are desperately wondering when everywhere will reopen and seem to be desperate for the schools to reopen.

I’m wondering if the reality of ‘lockdown’ doesn’t fit with what everyone thought it would be (it’s quite hard dealing with dc every day with no break and no where to take them especially if you are having to work through out from home with the dc arguing around your feet). It’s really boring staying at home all the time, missing holidays, missing family, missing friends and gatherings, social interactions, No eating out, cinema, theatre, coffees etc.

Maybe there are two groups of posters and three weeks ago I mainly caught the pro lockdown group Posting and now I am just seeing the pro economy/lift the lockdown posts. I don’t know? I have also just had a group call with friends and it seemed to be that some thought we should be lifting lockdown pretty soon.

It just seems so contradictory from three weeks ago when people were clamouring for the government to take action.

I think lockdown is a good thing and should continue as it is for at least another 3 weeks (after the original 3 weeks). I know people are losing money and missing family but this is saving lives and stopping the NHS getting over run with cases. It’s awful that our kids will miss most of summer at school, awful people have had to cancel holidays and events, awful that people are unable to work but the alternative is losing family members and a shortage of ventilators at hospitals.

We are coping ok, I’m stuck in with 2 autistic teens, one is struggling and having meltdowns, it’s costing me a fortune in things to keep her occupied, she hates being at home, misses school and her activities. I am unable to work and possible won’t have a job to go back too, my eldest daughter has missed out on sitting exams but I still feel lockdown needs to continue until there is a significant drop in numbers or cases.

It's not about just you

Yes I do know that, and tbh it's why I'm very glad indeed I'm not the one having to make the decision and balance all of this.

I'm complying meticulously with lockdown, we go for a small local walk every couple of days and shop over a fortnight.

What I'm expressing is my own feelings about this, longer term.

And if one more person mentions the war or backbone.. 🙄🙄

If Coronavirus was allowed to spread freely there wouldn’t be anyone getting cancer treatment either, and more people would die from non-corona illnesses/accidents. Because the entire healthcare system would collapse.

Exactly. If a hospital has 1000 beds and because lockdown is lifted, 2000 people need to use it for whatever reason then 1000 simply will not get in, and could die - at home, or in the car park, waiting to get in.

Lifting lockdown too early wouldn’t just mean slightly more deaths but a recovering economy. It’d mean absolute chaos and trauma, especially for medical staff.

Coming out of lockdown is going to be v complicated, and it’ll have to be done when the country has more facilities and staff to help.

But you could spread it to 2.5 people who will pass it on to another 2,5 each, and so on. And some of those people would die.

That's why we have lockdown at the moment.

No, that's not why we have a lockdown at the moment. We have a lockdown TO PROTECT THE NHS. It's not about saving lives (although that is a happy by-product of the measures that have been put in place), it's about making sure that not everyone gets this fucking virus at the same time, because the NHS couldn't cope. Now, in doing that we will save lives as a happy by-product, but the government has far more serious things to worry about than keeping any single one of us alive - old or young, sick or healthy. The government has to ensure that this country will be able to keep going and ensure that the minimum of damage is done to us as a nation by this pandemic. That isn't the same as 'saving lives'. There is nothing sentimental about this policy - it is cold, hard business and economics. Those being asked to shield for 12 weeks are the oldest and the sickest among us, but the country isn't 'saving their lives', they're being asked to save their own lives (if they choose to - many stories of people in this group leaving their homes to go and buy a newspaper or a pint of milk - but on their heads be it).

I am constantly in a state of fear that I will get this virus and that I won't survive it. I have underlying health conditions and I have to keep working. I have had my hours halved in work and have had to make a claim for universal credit. I was stressed to the max trying to do that as getting through seemed impossible. I now have a telephone appointment in 2 weeks. I see people are not adhering to the lockdown every day. It makes me so sad that so many people in my vicinity refuse to comply. I think we needed a tougher lockdown for a shorter period. The soft lockdown has meant that some people just look for ways to keep doing what they want and we will have to do this for longer. I actually feel sickened by so many people citing mental health as a reason to not follow the guidelines. Our society is so selfish. It's all about me and not about the greater good. How selfish must you be to put your desires above everyone else's right to live? I understand that some people live in totally shit environments I get that being at home is hard for those people. What I don't get is for the majority of people the sacrifices we are being asked to make are not massive they are just an inconvenience. They are minor in comparison to losing your family and friends forever.

I know people are losing money and missing family but this is saving lives and stopping the NHS getting over run with cases

It's saving lives in the sense that it is allowing people with the worst cases to be properly treated whereas if they were overwhelmed the NHS would have to start prioritising who gets intervention based on fitness. But make no bones about it, all the routine scans and investigations that have been stopped will result in deaths further down the line. I have a cervical cyst preventing me getting an overdue smear done it is blocking the entrance. My gynae appointment was cancelled last week. So this means it will likely be over a year before I can get one and get myself checked being as I had already waited 6 months. Many women have had their smears cancelled. Ok not a drastic example but you can see that some people will not be caught or given treatment on time.

I think people are still thinking this is to save lives. It can't really do that unless everyone stays home for another couple years. A vaccine isn't on the horizon quickly and I would not be queuing up as a guinea pig for a rushed one.

The next step we'll take will be similar to what many proposed before. Herd immunity. Sick stay in. Vulnerable stay in. Elderly stay in. Big fines for transgression. Most restaurants still closed, big events still a no no. Schools open again. Trips and travel still limited within reason.

I’m waiting for investigative surgery and a biopsy as well as having no work now

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/06/what-are-the-uks-options-for-exiting-the-coronavirus-lockdown

I don't know if anyone has already posted this, but it's an interesting article about the various options to get us out of lockdown. None are perfect, but it's not true there is either lockdown or just letting it rampage. If it rampaged, people would lock themselves down anyway, by continuing to work at home and not eating out/shopping etc. I must admit my desire to do my usual activities has been curtailed by the risk of getting very sick if I do.

It is better than dying a horrible premature death because the NHS is swamped though.

This is a ridiculous argument. As is the 'it would be worse without PPE'.

I have to disagree.

It is one of the most convincing arguments I have ever heard on mumsnet.

There has been study published today which is siuggesting school closures have little effect upon the spread.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/apr/06/school-closures-have-little-impact-on-spread-of-coronavirus-study

While I do have sympathy for people who are missing out on routine treatment, it would still be a problem if we hadn't had lockdown because all the gynae or dermatologist doctors and nurses would be pulled into intensive care units to deal with very sick people.

If you doubt this, watch some of the video messages from doctors and nurses on the front line who are already barely coping. There was one in our local area that had spent all morning with podiatry specialist doctors moving bodies from the hospital into the fridges in the car park that had been brought into use because the morgue couldn't cope. And we're a borough with one of the least number of cases in London. Or read some of the blogs from Italian and Spanish health staff who were begging us to observe lockdown.

This government is very much into personal liberty. They would not being doing this unless they really thought it was necessary. I'm sure they will relax things as soon as they feasibly can. But when our own PM is seriously ill with it, it brings it home that it can affect anyone.

We are way behind on testing people, which is a big mistake we made in not getting testing kits earlier. Once we can assess who has already had the illness it will be so much easier to start people getting back into the workplace and introducing some normality. No one wants this to drag on forever.

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

Hi just wanted to ask if you have seen the superdrug doctors hpv tests? You do it yourself at home. You swab then send it to the lab. Your results will be on your account within a week usually. They can send a copy to your Dr too. I did it in January. It tests for the hpv strains that cause cervical cancer in 99% of cases. It cost me £50 but I feel better for having it done. I was having spotting so I was willing to pay. I hope you get treated soon. Sorry for going of subject x

Yes it has. I think most people accept it as a necessary measure at the moment.
Apparently we stuck to the rules pretty well over the weekend (contrary to predictions of people behaving badly) which indicates the government was right to take the gradual approach they did, relying on the majority of people becoming self motivated to follow the rules rather than having it enforced, which Britain doesn't really have the police/military manpower to do anyway.

I think it’s perfectly possible and understandable to know that the current restrictions are the right thing to do, while also being keen to understand what comes next and when.
We can’t stay like this indefinitely of course. So while it’s currently the right course of action, I think most people are struggling with it and would like an idea of the exit strategy.

But make no bones about it, all the routine scans and investigations that have been stopped will result in deaths further down the line.

These would also be stopped if the NHS were having to deal with true peak coronavirus numbers too. It’s a coronavirus problem not a lockdown problem.

i'm sorry but if it was 4 year olds dying with this virus people would not be saying weigh it up against years left to live v cost to nation and feelings around lockdown

Before we had vaccines, we had to do exactly this. People went about their normal business and just had to accept that you might get measles or rubella or chicken pox and some kids would be fine, and others wouldn't be.

I said this on another thread, but we've been spoilt and think that there should be no risks in life. I suspect that a reliable and safe vaccine is some time off and people are going to have get on with life eventually and take the risk.

When I was a child, shops were open 5 days a week 9-5. There was no online shopping, no internet, and we didn't have a TV for some years (out of choice.)

So when did people who worked 5 days 9-5 do their shopping?

Are you suggesting shops were closed saturday and sunday. Or sunday and monday?

Of course this is necessary. But it doesnt mens people cant like it or be happy.

The whole situation regarding mental health has really turned on its head in a few weeks.

I thought talking was good. That no one should make you feel shit or small for feeling how you feel. Let's get Britain talking?

Apparently, not.

Something I've noticed, for whatever reason, cars passing out house, which are vastly down in number, are driving considerably slower. As I'm self isolating I don't know if this is happening elsewhere.

I'm OK with lockdown at the moment as it's necessary but I don't think it can work long term.

i'm sorry but if it was 4 year olds dying with this virus people would not be saying weigh it up against years left to live v cost to nation and feelings around lockdown

If it were children, you are correct that the public's calculus would be different.

But it's not.

Those calling for a long lockdown need to explain what their exit strategy is. Sitting at home waiting for a vaccine is not a strategy. There is no guarantee that their will be a vaccine and it make take years.

If everyone sits at home worldwide, food shortages will start. It simply is not a longterm option.

The government has been clear that lockdown is to slow the spread until the NHS can cope, not stop it. Once the Nightingale hospitals are built, there will be greater capacity and we will start to relax controls. It won’t go back to normal but you need to accept that ultimately over half the population will need to catch it and recover.

If everyone sits at home worldwide, food shortages will start.

But they aren't and won't be.

The current lockdown is to flatten the curve so that hospitals can cope.

This has been made very clear.

The restrictions will be lifted gradually once we see a fall off in numbers.

There is bound to be a re-surge once this happens and then herd immunity will kick in until a vaccine is ready.

There is no ONE simple answer.

It's a case of balancing the economic fall out, which is considerable, with having an NHS being able to cope with numbers, and people's liberty to live their lives.

No one politician has the answer and it's going to be a case of making decisions as more information becomes available.

@Shitsgettingcrazy Waitrose was always closed Sundays and Mondays.

No one is saying don't talk, But we don't have to all be in unison saying the same thing do we?

I’m more concerned that we’ll lift it too soon. Imagine how poor compliance will be with a second lockdown soon after? I saw the study about schools closing having minimal effect and am very sceptical. We don’t know enough about how Covid spreads to say that yet (a lot of the research was based on SARS which killed fewer than 1 thousand) and we all know kids are the least hygienic members of society. I think kids spreading it at school and taking it home to their families is far more likely than adults. I literally never touch my colleagues.