Can anyone explain Germany to me?

[Noooblerooble]

I see their cases are likely on a downward trend and they've had comparatively few deaths. Does anyone have a breakdown of what they've done differently or understand the science of why they've not been worse affected? I'd be really interested to see it. Thank you!

They've done a lot of testing!

So been able to isolate cases and contract trace.

They have a higher number of official cases than UK but I suspect its far more widespread here.

www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html

I thought this was an interesting article, it explains the various factors in depth. Lots of testing, a well resources healthcare system are important. Also a younger demographic infected compared to Italy, for example.

Testing and contact tracing.

Not leaving people to manage alone until they can't breathe.

The reason they have a younger demographic of cases is because they stayed on top of it and prevented lots of returning skiers from passing it on to their older relatives.

They also have better medical care.

I read recently that they also give oxygen ( not ventilation) at the first signs of trouble

Which may well be what Lang just said

Maybe they’re healthier.

Does it matter now? We are where we are. Let's stop comparing ourselves to other countries with different social and political structures. Let's just deal with the situation we are in and leave it until any subsequent enquiry or whatever to decide the lessons learned.

Does it matter now?

Yes!

We need an exit strategy. We need to be learning everything we can from anywhere in the world that is having any success in containing this and preventing deaths.

This is a pandemic, it's happening all over the world at the same time.

You are correct that blame and lessons learned is for later. No country has dealt with this 100% perfectly. This virus has caught the entire planet on the hop . All countries need to work together now to identify what works and adapt it to local contexts or we are stuck with this for a very long time.

what Lang said - they test soooo much more and therefore have officially many very mild cases recorded...

it started with younger people coming back from skiing in Italy and was passed around between a younger demographic during carnival. Younger people tend to be less severely affected.

they have a much more effective health system too but I think the main difference is the testing (and isolating).

also, generations live more apart than in Italy so it wasn't passed on as easily to older family members.

Thank you, that's very interesting. I keep reading how crucial behavioural science is in fighting any virus and how Taiwan, too, has had a low number of cases because they took this really seriously when this started and acted accordingly. How people respond to any virus clearly really matters.

I saw something that said Germans with the virus have been much younger than in Spain and Italy, hence the lower death rate, but it wasn't clear if that's because Germans are younger, on average, or because they were better at shielding the elderly.

As well as testing and tracing I think decent basic primary care is key to preventing deaths and this is something we are not doing. From the NYT article:

They call them corona taxis: Medics outfitted in protective gear, driving around the empty streets of Heidelberg to check on patients who are at home, five or six days into being sick with the coronavirus.

They take a blood test, looking for signs that a patient is about to go into a steep decline. They might suggest hospitalization, even to a patient who has only mild symptoms; the chances of surviving that decline are vastly improved by being in a hospital when it begins.

In the UK we seem to be totally focussed on ICU and ventilator capacity and that is absolutely crucial but we don't seem to be doing much to prevent people getting to that stage. People are told not to bother the NHS until their symptoms are severe.

They took it seriously and managed it responsibly. Oh and their healthcare system hasn't been battered for decades with cuts.

In the UK we seem to be totally focussed on ICU and ventilator capacity and that is absolutely crucial but we don't seem to be doing much to prevent people getting to that stage. People are told not to bother the NHS until their symptoms are severe.

I think this is the biggest problem with the British health system in general, its very good when you have a problem, its not so good in preventing you from getting the problem in the first place.

Germany is a lot better at preventative health care whilst the UK is much more reactive.