80% for self employed - question (I am a customer and

[Exoffice]

One of the DDs is doing taekwondo. All classes have been suspended because of Corona. We received an email from the teacher today asking us to pay nevertheless. He runs it on a self employed basis and has about 150 students in total (he told me before Corona). He is asking everyone to keep paying to keep the club going and to make sure he and the other teachers still would have an income.

I am luckily still working but may lose my job but still can afford to pay. But I am not sure if I should. I am sure many families hAve been hit hard and cannot afford £30 per month for a none lesson. But I would not want him the have no income either. I am really conflicted.

Would he not get paid 80% as part of the Corona package? or is he taking the mickey?

can anyone explain how this works? Should I pay? As I said, we can afford it for the time being but it may change.

I think it is a fair request to make if communicated transparently, and when we can I think it is good to keep payments going.

However, if he can maintain some form of service this would be better. I see no reason why he can't transfer to online teaching during this time. Yes, it has its limitations, but if he is asking to pay, why wouldn't he do this? It's better for his business too, Ashe helps to keep in touch with his customers and keep them in the habit of doing his sport. Win win?

The main problem for many self-employment people is that we cannot even apply for the 80% until June. If you have overheads until then and want to pay your self-employment teachers, it's really tough.
I would however suggest that you'd like something for your money. Either online lessons or perhaps a credit for future lessons?

Greysparkles

They will have rent, rates, insurance, heat & light, staff costs, stationary, finance costs, equipment, uniforms, advertising, telephone, internet.

And all sorts which I havent thought if in 30 seconds.

LOL

@musicposy
In your situation, I would be asking customers to help me out now, but I'd be paying them back in June. 'Winning' out of this situation is morally wrong.

Would he not get paid 80%

It's 80% of profits, not income. He'll still have all kinds of expenses such as insurance, professional fees, bank charges, maybe rent, subscriptions, etc.

I.e. say income from students was £50k, expenses £20k, Profit £30k. He would only get 80% of his profit, i.e. £24k, but may still have a lot of those expenses to pay out of it.

No need to LOL me

Just going off what I pay for my kids martial arts.
£30pm
£35 per year for licence
£60 per year for grading
£40 uniform
£20 suitable trainers

Times that by 150 kids
I'm up to 81k
That's without any merch sales (pads, bars, dvds etc)
Birthday parties (250 a pop)

So it's feasible that the profit is over 50k

LOL

Do do you think they get the premises, licences, gradings permissions and uniforms for free then 😂

No insurance?

No utilities in the premises?

No telephones?

No advertising?

As I said LOL

All the clubs we go to which pay by month direct debit, have offered something in lieu - ie zoom dance classes, or prerecorded dance classes, or land training zoom classes instead of swimming etc and sent a nicely worded email explaining their bills they still have to pay, but offering those who were in financial trouble to contact them and they'll see what they can do. I think that's fair.
It sounds like he's trying to profit off this, whilst offering nothing, which is an awful thing to do in our current situation.

For my own swim business, I only had two sessions to cancel that customers had paid for- I offered to refund them all, and was pleasantly surprised that 90% of them responded telling me not to refund them.

*No insurance?

No utilities in the premises?

No telephones?*

Pretty sure I was 30k over 50 there...

Not sure why you're being such a knob, I was just saying that is feasible that his profit is too high for government help. Ergo he is asking for fees to be paid still

LOL

I've read a few of these threads today (furloughed from work) and I had a question...

I was told as an employed worker that I was not allowed to do any paid work for my employer whilst on furlough and receiving 80% pay from the government scheme. If a SE worker is planning to apply for the government grant would they legally be allowed to be paid for their usual business line during this time? I was under the impression (educated impression as I'm an employer of SE and temporary workers in my role) that any income related to the usual business line would void their application as they're not out of business due to the CV if still being paid for their services...

I'd pay it, but not if you are experiencing hardship yourself.

@Snoooozzze - you are wrong. The SE grant to sole traders does not require the business to close entirely. It is very different from furloughing.

@museumum thanks.

The government information states that if your business trading is affected by CV and you are or would be trading if not for CV that you would be able to claim the grant. Does that not mean that businesses such as the one the OP talks about, asking all usual clients to pay usual fees and therefore not losing money due to the CV, would/should not be able to claim the grant?

The information provided by the government is not very clear or comprehensive but that's how I read it

Daughters dance school have put all lessons online and are not charging.

If all of his normal attendees pay, then I guess in june he’ll have a hard time claiming he had lost business due to covid. But I doubt everyone will pay (eg the op) and June is far away when he’s got all of March April and May’s bills to pay.
And we have no idea when in June we can claim or how.

To be clear I don’t think he’s right to ask for full fees, but I also don’t think he’s a cf who will “profit” either. If he’s very lucky he won’t go deep into debt / bust. Most se people will be paying for this for years.

If he hasn’t made any attempt to provide proper lessons online in an accessible way then no I wouldn’t pay this guy. He sounds like a big enough operation to sort himself out.

Others who are smaller, or offer to do online stuff or credit it against a future term when they receive their grant (if they can) definitely

You need to be able to separate the greedy from the needy!

He can ask but not force. My gym had a number of people offer to keep paying because we love that gym. He went over and above to do online classes.

He said they were suspending DDs but if people want to pay they can or if they want to pay less they can as it will help, they have staff to pay etc. But he also said when they reopen everyone who does that will get memberships paused or reduced, so it is not more money, it is money now not later. Anyway I started then realised I am fucked as cannot be furloughed so stopped.

Decide based on your personal financial circumstances. End of.