Masks. This Prof says if everybody wore one it would stop the virus in its tracks.

[DonPablo]

guardian opinion piece link

It's all so confusing, right at the start of all this we were told masks were pointless. The article says that when South Korea enforced mask wearing their death rate and tragectory, which did look like Italys, dropped right off.

Anyone want to discuss this with me? Should we all be wearing masks?

However, DH and I are both keyworkers and have to go out.

And the advice is that if you are symptomatic, you should NOT go out.

This new Nature study says if you are symptomatic you might spread less if you are wearing a mask.

If I were a keyworker, I’d be wanting symptomatic people to stay at home, not think they can chance it by wearing a mask.

DH and I could be infected but asymptomatic. It would appear a reasonable proportion of cases are.

Assume YOU are the infected one.

Symptomatic people should stay home, preferably following WHO guideline and not UK ones.

Well I already thought it obvious that if someone coughs then a mask will protect others around them to some extent, but this is a strong statement "If 80% of the population uses a mask, the virus is “essentially eliminated” and so I don't trust it. Perhaps some of it was taken out of context?

If it were as simple as that we could all get masks and just forget about the virus altogether. We'd only have to wear them for a fortnight. Problem solved.

On the other hand there has been almost hostility to the idea of wearing one. What's that about?

@loobyloo1234

There's a whole world of difference between PPE use by medical workers and Joe Bloggs wearing one when out shopping.
Is yours correctly fitted with a full seal around it? Do you put a new one on every time you leave the house?

And why would PPE be so important if masks weren’t of use?

Are you using medical ones?

Pesty have you got evidence that an aysymptomatic individual spreads the disease by breathing?

This thread was referring to the amazing 5 year study - which narrows all the way down to 4 symptomatic people with a different coronavirus who coughed regularly.

noblegiraffe - plenty of people with habitual coughs could be asymptomatic on the basis they normally have a cough anywyay, so don’t count it as a symptom. Then there’s people with hayfever who sneeze violently. So I think it partly depends on how you interpret the notion of asymptomatic - not coughing or sneezing frequently, or just not getting symptoms you can’t write off in your own mind as something else.

Noble

www.livescience.com/undetected-infections-coronavirus-widespread.html

A bit like Typhoid Mary

Yes I’m wearing an N95 mask that is properly fitted

We started wearing home-sewn masks to the shop a few weeks back. The aim is purely to lower the risk that we are infectious but asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic and might in that period pass on the virus to others. It's one tool in the toolbox along with the 2-metre distance, touching a minimum of items, hand washing and sanitizing, and obviously being at home the rest of the time. I wouldn't claim that my cloth mask is in any way going to stop me getting infected, but if everyone in a supermarket wore and used one properly (in combination with the other measures), I bet there would be very few transmissions.

We wear the masks just for the one hour in the supermarket and the way home, then they're taken off by the ear straps and dumped in a plastic bag without the cloth part being touched, then boiled on the stove for 10 mins and ironed afterwards ready for the next use.

Home-made masks are really taking hold here in Germany for precisely that reason. The town of Jena has made it compulsory to wear masks (or scarves) in public spaces, but I don't see that happening here in Berlin because too many people are too stupid and bloody-minded to do it properly.

Re. counting mortality in Germany: the head of the Robert Koch Institute has confirmed that anybody who dies having tested positive for CoVid counts towards the figures, whatever their pre-existing conditions. The one thing that Germany is not doing is routinely posthumously testing people who were not previously diagnosed, but it is thought that this will be a relatively small number of people.

It's not entirely clear why the German total of deaths is so low (as opposed to the proportion of those tested), but it's certainly true that the German health system is nowhere near being at capacity right now. And so many people are being tested thatpossibly a decision is made at a very early stage whether to hospitalise or not, which increases people's chances of survival.

Yes I’m wearing an N95 mask that is properly fitted

Let's hope your local health care providers don't need any then if you've got a stash!
Who fitted it for you?

Pesty you’ve just linked to a mathematical model not evidence that asymptomatic people breath out catchable virus in a way that isn’t mitigated by the normal social distancing and hand washing.

You’ve got to be mindful that if you start getting people to wear masks on the off chance that it might stop an asymptomatic individual spreading it via breathing (it won’t stop you catching it from them) then you will also get symptomatic people leaving the house wearing a mask and touching surfaces.

loobyloo I hope you are a health care worker.

DSD is a nurse, unless they are doing invasive procedures on a covid patient , they are stuck with surgical masks. There is a limited supply of N95s

I went to the local shops yesterday. I wore a mask and gloves (both of which I'd bought years ago for sanding and crafting purposes). Had some funny looks, but also saw someone in an NHS uniform wearing one. I figured it's the socially responsible thing to do in case I'm incubating it. It's to protect others as far as I possibly can, not so much me.

I'm not a virologist or any kind of scientist, so it's impossible for me to comment coherently on the science. But it's such a small thing I figured it was worth a go, especially since I had the stuff anyway.

It does stop you touching your face so much. Plus you can stick your tongue out at the people sniggering at you without them seeing.

@PestymcPestFace

loobyloo I hope you are a health care worker

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

@Soontobe60

I’ve spent a lot of time in the Far East so have had the mask a long time before Covid. I’m not actually sure why you feel the need to criticise someone wearing a mask which protects myself as much as whoever else I come into contact with?

Stay safe all

Italy has made it obligatory to wear masks and gloves for going into any shop . Veneto region is distrubuting free single use masks . They can be disenfected using alcohol spray after wear they are intended only for a shop visit. Why have they invested money into something if it is a waste of time? I have made cotton face masks with a pocket for extra material . WHen I wear one it makes you more aware that you should not touch your face . Gloves I have some latex ones that I wash and then disenfect so I can recycle them and face mask gets washed and ironed.

I would very strongly approve of anyone with a cough, whatever they think the cause is, wearing a mask to protect everyone else, though - and proper advice on how to make, put on and keep clean, homemade masks. That would be useful.

I have hayfever and will cough from February to September. I cough into my elbow or a tissue, I will not be wearing a mask 7 months of the year!

Why have they invested money into something if it is a waste of time?

Don’t assume that if something is being done that it’s because it’s well-evidenced.

There’s a lot of ‘something must be done, this is something therefore it must be done’ going around at the minute.

I'm just bemused that the general public think they're really protecting themselves and others by wearing a mask. Read the actual science folks!
Oh, and Louby, the kindest thing you can do is donate all your masks to the local hospital, they're desperate!

Noble mathematical models show that pressure relief valves should be in accessible, safe places. Piper Alpha is evidence.

Sometimes it is best to research the data and avoid evidence. If we want evidence to prove it (asymptomatic transfer) we would have to expose people purposefully and repeatedly to asymptomatic patients. Doubt this would get past an ethics committee.

The study won't have been on COVID19 Coronavirus either....

S Korea's main factor was their use of tracking phones and contacting everyone that someone diagnosed had come in contact with. No way a Western country would be able to track its citizens like that.

@Soontobe60

I have one mask. Stop being shitty. Don’t wear a mask if you don’t want to but don’t criticise those that are. It’s not a good look

we would have to expose people purposefully and repeatedly to asymptomatic patients. Doubt this would get past an ethics committee.

Like the mask study of symptomatic patients?

If everyone wore clean masks, then it would make sense that there would be lower risk of infection.
People would have some protection against spreading it, and of being infected.
The numbers may not be high but even reducing by 20% would be good.