My ex- not letting me have my daughter during lock-down

[AE12345]

Sorry for the long post. It does relate to Covid-19 but first some relevant context: My daughter (almost 13) lives with her Mum and normally is with me every other weekend. I love my daughter as much as any good dad should and have always worked hard to be a part of her life, a fact which her mum merely allows/tolerates - i.e. there is never evidence of her actively valuing and encouraging my role in my daughter’s life and certainly she does not consider me an equal in decisions pertaining to my daughter despite my having Parental Responsibility and demonstrating unwavering commitment to being part of her life. Plus she is generally encouraging my daughter to feel that it is entirely her choice whether she sees me at an age of course when a child can’t see the big picture. Add to this that my daughter has never been one to engage willingly in phone/Facetime conversations (I phone her every night but at best get about 30 seconds of laboured dialogue from her these days) and my relationship with her is feeling increasingly fragile. In this context the face-to-face time I spend with her every fortnight is my one real opportunity to sustain our bond.

Now we have this awful Coronavirus situation. My daughter’s mum is asthmatic which puts her at higher risk if infected. Moreover my wife is undergoing Chemotherapy and hence in the highest risk category. These risks considered I conceded to not see my daughter 2 weeks ago when this situation all started to surface because my daughter had a cough. But I had intended to see her this weekend which is in accordance with the official Government guidelines which state that: "Where parents do not live in the same household, children under 18 can be moved between their parents’ homes.” That guidance would allow for me to collect my daughter and have my daughter stay in our household as normal, and my wife to her immense credit was supportive of this as she considers my relationship with my daughter to be very important.

Of course any guidance needs to be considered sensibly in one’s own context - our household has been in total lockdown for the past 2 weeks and allegedly my daughter has been similarly isolated, plus the journey to collect her would be made in my car (not public transport) and all contact with the outside world would be avoided. So the risks in having her stay with us seemed very small. However, being a risk-averse type I took an even more cautious stance and suggested to my ex- that I drive over and take my daughter out for a walk for a couple of hours over there, avoiding all contact with others. i.e. not having her stay in our household. I felt this was a very reasonable and risk-conscious compromise.

HOWEVER, my daughter’s mum has however stated that she does NOT want me to see my daughter during this situation, even on the compromise basis I proposed. She suggested I Facetime my daughter (which she knows will not work very well) and eventually after much bickering (always via text as she won’t ever engage with me verbally like 2 mature parents should do) she suggested I drive over (1 hour journey), come into their back yard via the gate and talk to my daughter from a safe distance of 2+ meters. i.e. no walk, no activity respecting social distancing even though families are being told they can go our for one exercise a day. While her proposal may read as better than nothing the fact is that without an activity as a focus this would be no different to a FaceTime call and the garden conversation would largely resemble me "getting blood out of a stone” - a laboured conversation realistically lasting no more than about 10 mins after which I would make the long return journey feeling very deflated.

My question here to fellow parents is am I being unreasonable in wanting to see my daughter under these circumstances? I certainly don’t want to put anyone at undue risk and if this situation had a fixed (short-ish) duration I could probably accept not seeing my daughter for the duration. But none of us knows how long this situation will endure. And it would seem unreasonable for me to go many weeks, possibly months, without properly seeing my daughter especially when current guidance allows for that. Your thoughts please...

Like most people until this is over there is not much you can do. Why can you not facetime her, even if it is only for a few minutes.

I think at 13 it seems that your DD isn't so interested in having a relationship with you if she won't engage in chatting with you. Pretty typical of many teens.

I think your Ex is being unreasonable if you have been truly self isolating, WFH, been super vigilante etc but I can understand her complete fear of her DD risking catching it too.

I wouldn’t see her because of your wife’s condition anyway. Is she shielding?
Plus, she’s 13. Talking to most teenagers is like getting blood out of a stone. Maybe your daughter just doesn’t want to go?

I would just put up with awkward facetime tbh because of your wife.

If she is having chemo I wouldn't take the risk, however small.

At the moment you are at the mercy of your ex unfortunately.
All I could suggest is write everything down regarding contact.
When this is all over make sure you dedicate time and money to your dd.
Most children are easy to win. Text her directly you may not get much back at first but ask her what she likes and make plans to do things that are for her enjoyment.
Our 14 year old loves stand up comedy so I watch a lot of that. He loves some tv shows I watch all of them. We have pizza and movie nights too.
We have very little time left with them before they stop being children. You can turn this around if you put your mind to it.
Don't give up.

You should be isolating for 12 weeks given both circumstances so no she isn’t being unreasonable. Please don’t think she’s doing this just to get at you. It is the guidelines. I’d accept FaceTime and if your daughter wants to.. accept time made up once it’s safe to do so, but also please remember 13 year olds tend to not want to talk to parents like they did as children for a few years, totally normal.

Don't make your daughter go between houses just because you want to see her. If you truly loved her you would want her to be the safest she can be which is staying in one place

It's an unprecedented time of pandemic, and hopefully it won't last much longer.

Please don't choose now to be an arse and make your relationship with them worse. It doesn't matter what's legal or could potentially be forced through. It matters how you build this relationship because that will damage things more if you're not careful.

Facetime her as suggested and whatsapp message with random fun things. See how it goes.

Your ex is clearly using the situation to her advantage to make your relationship with your daughter even more difficult. She is being unreasonable.

However, as your wife if undergoing chemo it would seem to me that the risk to her is too great. You really can’t take any risk no matter how small with her getting it.

Just face time your daughter regularly, no matter how awkward it is, so that when this is all over your ex can’t say that you didn’t bother with your dd.

Just because the government allows DCs to travel between houses doesn't mean it's the optimum thing to do. Plus an hour long car journey each way means you may break down and need emergency services - unlikely but more likely than if you were staying close to home.

None of us knows how long this will go on, so I suggest you agree to Facetime only for a few weeks and then rethink if the situation will go on for longer. Our teen is difficult to engage with and would hate the idea of a daily call - you might get more response if you reduced to twice a week.

Maybe you could let her know you're thinking of her by ordering a pizza for her or something that she likes.

Your Dd isn't a small child, she isn't going to forget you and is old enough to understand the situation.

A lot of your post is antimum, who is probably scared for her own health and DD is probably worried for her and possibly stepmum whether she shows it or not and also about what you want. What does your Dd want? Her mum is right, she is old enough to chose regardless of whether she sees the big picture or not.

At 13 I would have hated daily phone calls too, I would also hate going back and forth between houses everyother weekend and I know alot of teens I work with struggle with this. Long meaningful conversations are few and far between when they are coming into the teen years.

I am not anti contact, my Dd is with her dad right now. I just think in this strange reality we currently find ourselves in, your DDs age and the medical needs of both mum and stepmum, you need to leave it for now. Take what facetime you get, and wait for the storm to blow over.

It’s so hard but we’ve made the decision for dc to stay at ex’s.
I think you need to put on a brave face and protect both households by staying away for now.
It’s heartbreaking, I worry about my dc understanding that I haven’t abandoned them and that it’s to protect them but it needs to be done.

I agree with Wishforsnow. I think you have to look at the big picture here, not just from your angle. It would be much safer for your daughter, and especially your ex, to stay away. It will only be a few weeks hopefully. Ordinarily I’m very much on the side of the dad when it comes to mothers being unfair, but this isn’t being done maliciously. It must be very scary being in the high risk group at present.

Keep ringing your daughter and trying with the FaceTime. One day she’ll understand how fab you were throughout this. And be understanding towards your ex. Who knows what’s around the corner for her.

Your daughter is 13. She understands the situation. Don't worry about it. Just face time her, write letters and play games online. Be creative. It will be memorable. Save lives and stay home. Protect your wife too.

The difference here is that both your dd and your wife are in the shielding category and as a result your dd shouldn't be going out at all.

I do believe your role in your dd's life is important but not as important as her life.

I think you're being incredibly selfish op. You miss your daughter , I get it. We all have relatives that we miss right now , but she should stay where she is.

I also think that your wife should be more of a priority. How would you feel if your daughter visited and passed covid 19 to her?

It does sound like your ex is using the situation to her advantage but you should be careful with regards to your wife anyway.

My piece of advice would be not to try and facetime every day. Send your DD a text to let her know you are thinking of her and do a call no more than twice a week. I think she would be more receptive to that. Every day is overkill for a 13 year old who hasn't done anything all day to talk about.

I would leave it - for your wife's sake more than anything. It's nice that she's supportive, but if she's having chemo and your ex doesn't want her dd to stay with you, just be sensible.

I think it's bad advice anyway. Someone on this board got strips torn off them for having their boyfriend to stay every other week, but people are shuttling children from home to home like usual. Not because it's safe, but because our country doesn't want to deal with a million shit fits when parents start fighting over who wins the kid.

For the time being, just keep calling to have a chat. And don't guilt trip her or ask a lot of questions. Suggest things like a film you saw on Netflix or offer to send her a game via Amazon. Keep it light.

*I mean calling at your usual time, not whenever.

What are her interests?

Look I really do understand it is hard however you are erring on the side of selfishness (although I do get why)

I'll put it from my side as a resident parent. Exdh and I get on well, usually he sees DC every weekend (everyother he picks them up Saturday afternoon later so I can have a weekend day with them twice a month otherwise it's just constant school dinner bed)

When the virus broke out we had to discuss it , his dm whom he lives with is in the shielded category. Not to mention we were seriously symptomatic for two weeks, but even when we came out of isolation he straight away said their safety and his mothers came first. I brought up that I was asking (not telling) him to take a break as hard as I knew it was.

He is gutted of course, now I grant you my DC ar younger at 7 and 4 but I have to say facetime is not overly successful because they are basically distracted tasmanian devils. He records them you tube videos of reading them a story or making their toys play together (of course I realise that wouldn't be useful at your DC age). He has done everything he possibly can to stay in touch and be with them but ultimately his stance is and always has been, their safety comes first ....always.

I know he is struggling but ultimately as much as this will not disappear in a couple of weeks , he made a parental decision not a personal decision. He would rather miss them than out anyone at risk. Believe me, he is not a deadbeat.

He was a crap husband and has tendencies towards Disney dad but actually when the chips were down he put the DC first and chose to miss them and struggle without them than risk hurting them in anyway (and to be fair his mother who whilst she is a horrible person deserves protection)

That's our situation. Honestly my view of him and respect has increased massively because he chose to make the right decision. He and I both know if o had had to put my foot down I would have done it without hesitation, the DC health comes first...end if discussion. He knows I couldn't have cared less if he thought I was being unfair, my focus is my DC. He chose not to put me in that position and I'm grateful.

I consider him a far better father than i did before this.

Not to mention he rings every single night, sometimes the DC, despite my best efforts, only want to speak to him for 30 seconds. Sometimes they want to speak for half an hour. Doesnt matter their dad simply accepts it , doesnt guilt trip them, and never ever ever misses a call so they know dad is there.

The only person you're thinking of in all this is you. Your partners health, your daughter's health - both irrelevant.

If you really care about your daughter, you'd prioritise her health. But it feels like your need to assert your right to see her is more important

For the sake of your wife you should forgo seeing your daughter I'm afraid.

Yours is just one side of the story and does read as very anti-mum.

My ex usually has our DC every other weekend (lives 3 hours away). He missed a weekend with them due to me having to self isolate, then a couple of weeks ago he told me he thinks it's best if for the duration of this pandemic, he doesn't come to collect them. Our situation is different because of the distance and obvious risks but I still think the guidelines from the government are shitty- as a pp mentioned people aren't allowed to see partners atm but kids can be carted between homes to pacify non resident parents who would have a strop otherwise. You say your ex is taking advantage of the situation but I can see many NRP's taking advantage of it as well, in some cases as a form of abuse.

Both your ex and partner have health conditions which mean you really should remain as separate households in this time. What if your DD came to stay and then you had to self isolate if someone had symptoms? She wouldn't be able to go back to her mum's which would be distressing for her.

You need to put her first. And think about the health conditions involved too. Sucks but this sucks for everyone.

So if your ex is highly vulnerable, how is she coping with groceries etc? I would be more worried that your daughters basic needs for food etc are being met. If you can't be helpful, i would stick to sending texts until the situation is resolved. This isn't about you, this is about your daughter and making sure her basic needs are met and ensuring the risks to your daughters mum are minimised!