Over 75s not admitted to hospital

[Orangeblossom78]

Just wondered what you thought of this, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52155359

Both my parents are over 75, wonder if this goes for them also, they have home care.

All ages are being treated at the moment. I guess it's advance preparation for if the NHS is completely swamped and cannot treat everyone - it's better to focus treatment on people who want invasive treatment and from which they're likely to recover.

Well according to world meter of the closed cases in the UK 96% died 4% recovered.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

I knew, DNRs are being signed and posted about on here recently so not surprising recently, I do hope good end of life care is available

Having read the link, your title is rather misleading.

I know two people both over 75, one in his 80s one in his 90s. In the event of either or both of them becoming very ill with this virus I imagine both, or either, would be admitted to hospital.

Like many old people they are both living alone and the one in his 80s is still working in his own business. The one in his 90s is a very fit man who is still having daily walks.

Surely the article is referring to frail people in care homes who have someone to nurse them.

No one is going to be left to die alone in their own homes because they are over 75. Well, not yet, anyway.

There was a letter in the Sunday Times from a Welsh chap of 91, who said that he’d rather be euthanised with dignity, than kept alive on a ventilator. Many elderly people would rather be “let go”. However, it should never be assumed, and there must be no coercion. There are loads of 75+ people with loads to give, just look at Joan Bakewell, Maggie Smith, David Attenborough as well as all the non-celebs living full lives, enjoying themselves.

It goes for everyone. This is a bit of a clumsy bit of reporting. There will be people who are already frail who won’t survive, whatever the treatment given to them. For them, dying in hospital with Covid-19 will likely mean dying alone after a period of serious illness and intensive treatment. Those are the people who are likely to be advised not to go to hospital. If there is a chance that treatment will result in survival with good quality of life then it won’t be an issue.

But everyone should have a think about their wishes in case they get very ill - do your parents have power of attorney set up? Have they written wills? So they have started planning. They might want to look at a Respect form as the basis of a discussion.

pigs yes, you bring up something there the NICE criteria for this is based on frailty, as to how they are treated, so guess it depends on that. I guess, people in the care homes would be frailer. Perhaps.

It reminds me I was reading something about a fit older person maybe better in terms of getting hough it than say, an unfit 60-something. Look at Prince Charles for example.

I think the BBC reporting is not great at the moment to be honest.

I hope that they would e.g. be offered oxygen and not just pain relief? Not easy to tell from the article.

I do hope good end of life care is available

It hasn't been up until now so that seems unlikely.

I think palliative care here is meant o be better than in some countries

I do hope good end of life care is available

It hasn't been up until now so that seems unlikely.

I disagree. England has some excellent palliative care. Having had my FIL die this week his care in the hospital beforehand was excellent, despite the struggles of CV19 going on, and his care in the hospice was superb too.

There is a tremendous risk to HCPs to give CPR to suspected/confirmed covid 19 patients in or out of care home environments. Chest compressions can cause covid-19 to become airborne and most care homes won't have the appropriate PPE for this.

Additionally, given CPR to frail elderly has poor outcomes.

It hasn't been up until now so that seems unlikely.

This depends on the care environment.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-51981099
Dr Lawrie said the coronavirus crisis was highlighting the "lack of resourcing" for palliative care medicine. He said there were 60 unfilled consultant palliative care posts across the UK and he said the number of specialist nurses was a "worry".

Previous to this, I have done a bit of reading on end of life care, and know that CPR in general, is often futile, even in younger people, so can see that...

what I'm wondering it would they try non invasive treatments first such as oxygen, or not? In that 10-20% of COVID cases need oxygen treatment...I mean in Italy they did this at home. (gave oxygen)

The chances of me, age 66, surviving CV-19 is slim because of heart failure. My family knows my wishes.
My DM, 93, has already signed a DNA, my father, 95, won’t even begin to discuss the subject or that he could die.
It’s about being realistic and pragmatic imo.

It reminds me I was reading something about a fit older person maybe better in terms of getting through it than say, an unfit 60-something. Look at Prince Charles for example.
Their won't be a judgement based on that, they have made it clear. Its based on age.

I have to admit I am concerned about the level of palliative care that can be provided in the community, simply because of the potential numbers of people who might require this. There are a limited number of syringe drivers and there are a limited number of staff covering over night, locally we have two people covering overnight for a caseload of approx 2,000. Out of those 2,000 there may be between 5 and 20 end of life patients who might need a visit overnight in normal times, spread over 500 square miles. It wouldn't take much of an increase to seriously reduce the level of care available.

My DM is 80 and she has made it clear that she wants any treatment possible to try and save her. She has many friends and with the exception of one who is already receiving palliative care for a long standing illness, they are all independent, active and thriving. Of course she has had a will and power of attorney sorted years ago, that is sensible at any age.

I am deeply shocked at what is happening in care homes right now.

I should add that weeks ago I told my DM and other elderly relatives to assume that medical care likely would not be available. I hope it will and it was a horrible conversation but I wanted to make sure they knew the risks. They have been on lockdown since some time before the govt suggested it.

I think no matter what your age or level of fitness you have to assume that if you get ill near the peak you may not be able to access appropriate care.

England does NOT have consistently good palliative care. Like the rest of the NHS and social care its under resourced. Some good work is done but even in normal times odds are much higher of getting v little help than of good care.

That's not what the article says at all, but don't let that get in your way.

Its going to be a question of "is it worth spending this resource on his person" based on, how much of the resource is available, and how much chance this person has of surviving for a long time after treatment.