Sweden's approach

[Allaboardthemagicbus2020]

How come the Swede's seem to be taking a casual approach to this?
No lockdown or closing of bars/cafes yet.

Any Swedes on here to offer their thoughts?

www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/sweden-new-superpower-megan-penhoet

I think that there is concern - but general calm. Stockholm is a huge hub that counts for almost 50% of cases and 2/3 of deaths, Gothenburg and Malmö as major cities have a lot of cases as does the rural area of Jämtland Härjedalen where there are skiing resorts ... although apres ski is now cancelled.

I think the government will need to decide what to do next weekend when the Easter holidays start - many ski at Easter and there is a risk of an exodus from Stockholm.

At the moment daycare and primary schools are running although some local authorities may ask pre school children of parents that are unemployed or on parental leave for some periods if there are not enough staff because of sickness or self isolation.

One benefit for Sweden was that it always had a lot of the salary support infrastructure to pay 80% salary that is under construction in the UK

• if you are sick - 80% salary
• if the kids are sick - 80% salary up to 60 days
• 80% unemployment pay if you belong to a fund
• 80% stay away pay if you are deemed an infection risk (happened at dd school where a teacher was off for 3 months after contracting salmonella in Thailand)

DD is at Uni which has gone over to online. She has come home as she is high risk and there have been 3 cases in her uni class - in her words "among the partying set"

The measures we have here are:

Gatherings of more than 20 banned
Supposed to keep 2 metres apart from each other in public
Some facilities and businesses closed, e.g. hairdressers, swimming pools, organised sports
High schools and universities closed with remote learning only
Primary schools and preschools open but reduced - in most cases children are attending every other day for reduced hours
All Icelandic residents entering the country immediately quarantined for 2 weeks
Isolation for confirmed cases
Quarantine for people exhibiting likely symptoms or people known to have been in contact with a confirmed case

We have apparently managed to slow the accumulation of cases better than most other countries.

Thank you @Lunde and @Puffin. So, in Iceland they seem to have a good grasp of things.

Sweden, only time will tell.

Well like most other countries we are still very much in the 'getting worse' stage so I suppose we will see for Iceland too. Only 2 deaths so far, one tourist and one resident. Hindsight will be great after this is all over.

I am glad we haven't gone 'full lockdown' as it were but perhaps we will live to regret it. On the other hand, if it turns out that Sweden has the correct balance and all these extreme measures do more harm than good, perhaps we will regret going so far.

We are in Sweden. It seems to be very much left to the individual, we and many friends have been in lockdown for two weeks now, but everything is on a voluntary basis. Most people I know are working from home and people in general are not happy with the government's response.

High schools all shut but many primary and nursery schools still full. We are a little behind the curve in terms of deaths, in a few weeks I really hope the rules toughen up. They are already building a big field hospital in Stockholm for when things get worse but medical supplies of masks, hand sanitiser etc are low already.

I would say another thing that is of concern in the medical country is the lack of testing (as seems to be the case in many places). Since March 13 it has been pretty much limited to people who have been hospitalised in a serious state, so it is very hard to say how far it has actually spread yet.

Agree testing seems to be a major factor, more so than the severity of lockdown measures.

This is an interesting article about it.

foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/24/sweden-coronavirus-open-for-business/?fbclid=IwAR1xxUlcXJnGbY1dN-ZpFgUkPX_XwxHxW0lR9S5dd7Zbe1R87h5H6xkGzdw

Sweden’s political leaders haven’t gone against the independent local public health agencies. People generally have a high level of trust in the agencies, and most people actually do as they are told. It’s for our own good! But time will tell.

@GoodDogBellaBoo

Yes, that the sense I get - there is a trust in the agencies and a belief that you will get the best information from them so people are calm. In the UK, there is much more cynicism.

@Allaboardthemagicbus2020 It feels safer to listen to the experts telling us what to do, than some random political leader who wants votes. The thing is, either way noone knows for sure which is the best approach..that’s the scary bit.

Does anyone know if Sweden has sorted extra hospital capacity or do they have enough anyway?

In Sweden they are making extra capacity in hospitals buy cancelling routine surgery etc.

They are also testing healthcare staff more quickly and are getting results back within 24 hours so they don't have to keep staff at home unnecessarily if they are negative.

The army are also being utilised - they built the icu modules of field hospitals outside major city hospitals

Lunde thank you, interesting they sorted their tests quickly.

Thank you for this thread. I too was wondering about the Swedish approach to tackling Covid19. It appears very different to the approach our government in Ireland took. We have almost total lockdown. We can go to a supermarket/ phsrmacy and exercise within two km of our home with one other adult from our household and with our young chimdren.All creches, schools, colleges snd universities are closed. All over 70's are in total lockdown.
Police, in my area anyway, are checking the lockdown is being adhered to- checking at the local supermarket that the 2 metres distance is being observed and there aren't even groups of 3/4 teenagers in the local park.
Strange times.
Stay well.

LadyEloise how are they supervising over 70s? It seems mad considering how many could have been at work. My late father, who was full of beans till cancer got him, would have volunteered back for his NHS job and he’d have been 80 now.

Oh I see, when the UK initially took a herd immunity approach, everyone was falling over themselves to denounce it as a catastrophic failing. Now Sweden’s doing the same, but apparently that’ll be fine because they are surely far more intelligent/cultured/knowledgeable than the British.

Really not sure why some people are so keen to put a downer on their own country.

FWIW, I’m a Brit in Switzerland (just down the road from the WHO in fact) and from here the Swedes are viewed as being reckless (as the UK was too, before it changed tack).

Flocon I was happy with herd immunity. Why do you say “everyone”?

I have asthma and other health conditions. But herd immunity would be better than the 10 years Great Depression and associated deaths coming. I’d certainly rather die before it and happy to make a DO NOT TREAT card. I might make a brooch.....

AutumnRose1
Most sensible over 70's are adhering to the guidelines as the consequences could be catastrophic- our hospitals just couldn't cope with the numbers needing ventilation in ICU.

@AutumnRose1

You might be happy to take your chances and potentially die, but you’d be in an extreme minority. And I’m sure if you find a cancerous lump or fall down the stairs onto your head, you’d quite like there to be enough capacity in the health service to fix you. That’s why almost every country in the world is following a containment strategy.

But herd immunity would be better than the 10 years Great Depression and associated deaths coming.

Wow, what an unscientifically based prophesy of doom! You might, of course, be right, but I can't stand people declaring these theories as if they're 100% correct when even the experts haven't got a clue

Lady so no one is actually stopping a 70 year old who gets their own shopping in?

Flocon cancer treatment- which I wouldn’t have - is already being cut, sadly.

@FloconDeNeige

What's it like in Switzerland? I imagine everything is very much calm and under control.

It’s pretty orderly here now; only a few wankers still flouting the rules. We closed the schools and started social isolation a week before the UK. At first there was a bit if panic buying but it’s calmed down.

There are potentially very large fines for people breaking the rules (~ £20,000). The Swiss are also very intolerant of rule-breakers, so people get shopped by others and this helps maintain order.

One of my neighbours called the police last weekend to tell them that bikers were racing up to the mountain pass (live in a ski resort above Geneva) and this was reckless and unacceptable given current circumstances. A day or so later, the police issued an announcement to stop this. To be fair, if you use a power tool on a Sunday, someone will call the police on you!

We’re 5 mins from the French border and it’s locked down there due to many French being lax about the rules. In fact there’s a bit of cultural tension as the Germanic parts of the country are accusing the latin parts (French & Italian speaking cantons) of being ill-disciplined and ignoring rules.