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Covid

OP posts:
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heath48 · 17/03/2020 02:19

Reported this scaremongering at it’s worst.

Clearly you posted this late knowing the mods are off line.

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AlaskaSometimes · 17/03/2020 02:34

^Just read it. Have done some ugly crying. Our lives as we know them are over. We will be a poorer smaller and younger nation soon.

I can’t think of my daughter and not loose it. I know she will Most likely survive but not to live the the life I naively assumed her to have.^

I think this is super over the top. The press is being reprehensible at the moment.

We work with lots of people in China right near the worst impacted areas. All our factories in China are back to normal and working again and they and their families are fine. Some areas are still working from home but things are slowly starting to regain normalcy.

It will be a big economic and social hit but things will go on. This isn't the apocalypse and your daughter can have a normal, very middle class life without issue in the future.

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Mistake22 · 17/03/2020 02:40

I am so sorry. I typed my password into the username by mistake. I am alone and I read the report and it terrified me.

I tried to change my username but couldn't.

Please mods can you delete.

Omg I am so so sorry. I am panicking and I am so sorry

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goingoverground · 17/03/2020 02:44

@SuckingDieselFella How is the OP trying to frighten people by linking to the paper that informed government?

The model is not a crystal ball, it may well be flawed.

I haven't read the article in The Times (does anyone have a share token?), however, reading the quote from Neil Ferguson out of context but in context with the actual paper, I understand it to mean this:

If we follow the paper's recommendation to try and suppress the virus by the entire country socially distancing, home isolation of cases, household quarantine where there is a case, and closure of universities and schools, we can put the epidemic into reverse ie each infected person infects less than 1 other person on average (R0 < 1) so instead of the disease spreading, it starts to wane. It also means that mortality will be reduced because the best healthcare will be available. However, that will not eradicate the virus. Once you lift those restrictions, the virus is likely to start to spread again. All it takes is one single infectious person remaining in the world, or an animal. It could take decades like swine flu or it could be days.

What can eradicate the virus is herd immunity, either from a vaccine or natural herd immunity (but that would result in many unnecessary deaths). The paper is suggesting that we may need to take radical measures to control the virus until we have a vaccine. That may take many months.

The last line of the paper is referring to how people will respond to such radical and severe measures that have never happened before. As you say, that is crucial and up to us. Which is why I believe rather than scaremongering, the OP is acting responsibly in helping people understand the science and rationale behind these measures.

Kai Kupferschmidt is right that there are many caveats, some positive, some negative. Assumptions in the model about how easily the virus is transmitted, the R0 etc may be wrong but they are based on what has been observed so far. The virus may mutate, for better or worse. Drugs may become available, seasonality may help, seeing what happens in the Southern hemisphere may tell us that.

I would suggest that we all take very seriously a scientific paper and it's recommendations based on what we do know over caveats about things that we don't know, however more appealing they are. It would be wise to mentally prepare ourselves calmly for some very difficult times as the price to pay for protecting ourselves, our loved ones and saving millions of lives around the world.

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CloudyVanilla · 17/03/2020 02:44

Why the fuck are people so aggressive towards information sharing. It's hardly propaganda or quack science is it, I'm sure most people want to know what the government is basing their advice on.

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LostaraYil · 17/03/2020 03:02

Thank you for sharing, this information should be more widely available. It is not scaremongering, but the best prediction there is at the moment, based on current data, and we should know what the government is basing its policies on.

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goingoverground · 17/03/2020 03:05

I am utterly shocked that people think that sharing what is probably the most credible and detailed source of information on the pandemic is scaremongering and want it deleted. Especially as it is in all the media now.

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AlaskaSometimes · 17/03/2020 03:10

Mistake22 no worry at all. If you are feeling so upset and anxious is there someone you can call who can be with you? You sound really distressed.
It's ok. Try to avoid thinking about the virus today. If you are social distancing and doing everything that you can then you don't need to read news or obsessively read threads on here about it. Just immerse yourself in a good book or a trashy TV show and get some equanimity back.

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goingoverground · 17/03/2020 03:29

@Mistake22 Please don't be scared or anxious. The new measures are going to keep people safe and save a lot of lives if we take them seriously. It's just going to be difficult and inconvenient for quite some time. Coronavirus isn't flu but hopefully by taking these measures we can make sure it is no more of a threat than flu. And just like the Spanish flu epidemic, life will go back to normal in time.

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Monty27 · 17/03/2020 03:41

I tried to gather international data a couple of weeks ago. There was no joined up thinking nor stats.
It's a disaster. An avoidable disaster.
It has pretty much been left to individuals to take care of these and their loved ones.
Like we all should do in normal life.
This debacle means we we care for everyone.
Like we should always have done in normal life.
Keep well everyone Flowers

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user1477391263 · 17/03/2020 03:44

OMG SOMEBODY SHARED A LINK TO A PAPER OR SOMETHING, I AM SO OUTRAGED.

Thanks for sharing this, OP. It's all very concerning.

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Mistake22 · 17/03/2020 03:54

Thank you. Yes, I am in a vulnerable group. So wasn't enforced, but obviously I heeded the advice. I don't want to derail the thread but thank you for being so understanding. This news will be everywhere tomorrow.. I heard it on the radio and I honestly thought I must be going loopy. That's why a I came here but made that stupid mistake. I hope they take it down soon

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Mistake22 · 17/03/2020 03:56

Pls excuse typos...

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Monty27 · 17/03/2020 04:04

I'm in a vulnerable group too. I'm probably less vulnerable than others as I have had and abided by excellent health care.
It's not just the vulnerable, it's the unwary right now.

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Mistake22 · 17/03/2020 04:16

Yes, many people I know that were able to do it started quite early. Not all would be classed officially as vulnerable but they knew they had to do it. We have to protect each other.

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mathanxiety · 17/03/2020 04:17

Thank you for sharing this.

Hmm at the people trying to shoot the messenger. Getting the thread closed down won't change reality.

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Fartintheloft · 17/03/2020 04:27

@jenjen76 Another one saying thank you. This paper is quoted all over the news now anyway. It’s really useful to have it posted here to prevent people having to go and find it themselves.

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crazydiamond222 · 17/03/2020 04:50

Thanks for posting OP. I thought the underlying assumptions in the paper were relatively modest especially around the proportions needing ICU care which seem lower than the Italy experience.

At least the government is starting to see sense now and realising that mitigation will cause too many deaths although why they could not understand this last week I don't know.

I think we need to be scared to realise how serious this situation is and how important social distancing is.

One of the main takes for me is that we need to be in this for the long haul:

'To avoid a rebound in transmission, these policies will need to be maintained until large stocks of vaccine are available to immunise the population – which could be 18 months or more'

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underneaththeash · 17/03/2020 06:02

Well, I read it and I agree, I it's pretty obvious that we're just going to get a massive peak when social distancing comes to an end.

Large scale social distancing is just not sustainable for the long term and it has massive economic and psychological for the individual.

Taking away the rights of the individual to decide for themselves if they should travel outside their home if they're unaffected by the virus is hardly democratic.

However, the government was coming under pressure from the WHO and some of the other European countries to take more severe measures, so I suppose their hands are tied. I'm just worried that it's the wrong thing to do.

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Esspee · 17/03/2020 07:18

Why has this information not been freely available?
Having read it (and had a good cry) I now understand the situation we are in.
Thank you jenjen

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SuckingDieselFella · 17/03/2020 08:26

There is no point in attempting to read an scientific article unless you are used to reading such articles and you understand the environment they are written in. The posters who are swearing at me and responding aggressively clearly aren't! The OP herself hasn't read it. It's more important than ever to ask who is giving you information and what their motives might be. She can't even tell you why she wants you to read it, let alone engage in a discussion about it.

If you read reports about this article, and I strongly suggest you do, you'll understand that this is a projection. It does not mean that everything they say will definitely happen. The government has changed strategy based on it but the authors themselves say that their assumptions could be flawed and events may pan out differently. It does not mean that X number of people definitely will die or the virus definitely will last for X number of years. We are in changed times and we should absolutely heed the government instructions. But this is a model and its projections aren't set in stone.

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jenjen76 · 17/03/2020 08:35

How condescending.....
I have read the paper. I understand the paper.
Information sharing is not a crime.

OP posts:
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Backyard72 · 17/03/2020 08:46

Yes diesel I think we do all understand the caveats, thanks for sharing Jen.

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LeeMiller · 17/03/2020 08:47

We can expect this study to be raised at today's press conference, I think. It is not scaremongering.

Does their modelling take into account things that may mitigate a second peak after social distancing restrictions are lifted? Or only a vaccine? Eg hiring/training more NHS staff, boosting ICU capacity, time to do proper studies on the various anti-virals that seem to be having a positive effect (while not a cure)? Watching the news in Italy and this is what they see as the benefits of the social distancing rules - time to prepare and equip means we will be better able to cope.

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NaturalBornWoman · 17/03/2020 08:47

Why are people saying this is scaremongering and they want the thread deleted? Get your heads out of your arses! I want all the idiots on the other threads who don't understand what social distancing means, or what a cough is, or what is essential interaction to read it. Fucking hot yoga and I'll do what's best for me! A lot of people are going to die. Many of them due to other people's stupidity.

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