If the country only has 5000 ventilators...

[PoptartPoptart]

...and a shortage of intensive care beds, then surely the government should be taking more drastic measures to slow the spread of this virus until we are in a better position to deal with a large number of cases?
Closing down large public gatherings, schools, was universities, etc, would surely help short term - just like other countries are doing

Yeah, you’d think so, wouldn’t you?

They keep talking about trying to flatten the peak, but nothing has been done to enable this so far?

I thought it was 4000 ventilators? And our ICU are 80% full on average. The reason they will tell people over 70 to stay home is because they won’t be treated if they get it. Doctors will decide who gets treatment based on who is most likely to survive. It’s horrible. At least for once Boris wasn’t lying when he said we will lose our loved ones before time.

They are taking lots of measures including buying up private hospital beds, and possibly requisitioning hotels.

They're trying to get more ventilators

BBC website says:
'Manufacturers including car makers, weapon makers and army suppliers are to be asked to switch their production lines to making ventilators for use in hospitals treating coronavirus - which can cause severe breathing problems.'

They should have started panic buying / manufacturing ventilators as soon as cases started appearing in Europe.

Their plan to make over 70s stay home is the plan. They just don’t have the resources to cope.

Yes, but in the meantime while they try to acquire this life saving equipment and put plans in place, surely the best course of action is to follow the lead of other countries and slow this thing down?

The number of ventilators and the number of icu beds are not the same thing. There are lots of ventilators in non icu settings and plans are being made to use these. And work is being done to slow it down!

They can buy all the ventilators they like... where are they going to magic up enough doctors to intubate and enough nurses to care for these people?!

In some ways they are though - and I can’t stand Boris so I’m not saying this lightly- but they’ve told people to self isolate if they’re unwell. In the speech they essentially told people that elderly and vulnerable groups will be told to stay home very soon and that people will be lost before their time - if that doesn’t scare the shit out of the public into making sensible choices what will?!

Yes you would think so. The more people stay home for the next two weeks, while the government sorts its shit out, the better.

Ventilators are complicated pieces of equipment requiring specialized electronic and pneumatic components.

Companies can't 'just switch and start making them', Boris.

I don't know why they think we're all too stupid to do multiple periods of quarantine if it helps to control the rate of people getting sick (which is their plan after all). Lockdown everything now for a few weeks to buy time to sort out more beds, ventilators, etc, then relax it for a few weeks to let the numbers build and give everyone some time to go out/do stuff, then lock it down again once their models tell them to.

And in order to maintain someone on a ventilator( notwithstanding having the staff to look after these patients) , you also need the medication to facilitate this...are there sufficient stockpiles of these in U.K. , considering countries are now stockpiling the raw ingredients for many pharmaceuticals ?

Looks people over 70 and vulnerable groups won’t get ICU if they get CV. But plenty of people getting hospital treatment for other conditions will also be assessed based on need. I have no doubt that once we get to a situation where nurses / doctors / beds are in shortage even Cancer treatment will be rationed.

@GrumpyHoonMain - oh I can see cancer treatments being rationed. Probably they will think who has the best chance of survival/recovery and treat those first.

The government have buried their head in the sand, thinking it won’t happen here. As soon as cases in Europe began to rise why on earth didn’t we start manufacturing more ventilators? Such a job is not simple and will take time. Lives will be lost because of their lack of acknowledgement and planning

@Peapod29

I thought it was 4000 ventilators? And our ICU are 80% full on average. The reason they will tell people over 70 to stay home is because they won’t be treated if they get it. Doctors will decide who gets treatment based on who is most likely to survive. It’s horrible. At least for once Boris wasn’t lying when he said we will lose our loved ones before time.

I said the same as you in a different thread about the over 65’s not getting treated in Italy. Another poster wouldn’t have it and wanted ‘evidence...’ 🙄

I mean it’s not rocket science, they have to draw the line somewhere. Not enough ventilators and too many patients....

@GrumpyHoonMain

Looks people over 70 and vulnerable groups won’t get ICU if they get CV. But plenty of people getting hospital treatment for other conditions will also be assessed based on need. I have no doubt that once we get to a situation where nurses / doctors / beds are in shortage even Cancer treatment will be rationed.

I was also under the impression that the over 70’s won’t be getting ICU beds if they get CV. Can’t remember where I seen it though?

@ BBCONEANDTWO - it’s heartbreaking but I think that’s what Boris meant when he said we would all lose loved ones. Even the normal stuff like strokes, heart attacks, cancer, accidents, neonatal ICU, will start to be reviewed based on the recovery the patient is expected to make. That might mean losing a lot of people from across all age groups. I hope it doesn’t come to that. I want to hope other countries will help us, Brexit or not, if our healthcare struggled to cope that much, but I think that is what the government is planning for.

I think the plan to cancel routine operations will free up anaesthetists and also paralysing and sedating drugs that would be used in surgery.
The cancellation of surgeries in the private sector will also help.
DH a medical academic being moved to a more hands on role......don't worry he does it anyway but only a percentage of the time!
Plans are in place.

Why didn’t they start production on more ventilators 3/4 weeks ago?
There just didn’t appear to be any urgency!

Agree OP. According to the Guardian Italy has ordered thousands of extra ventilators. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/11/italy-faces-calls-to-close-everything-to-tackle-coronavirus

Our government had the advantage of seeing what happened in China and then Italy. We had a warning and more time to prepare. We should have immediately ordered more ventilators weeks ago.

@Bagelsandbrie The government has no will to protect us. They're pretending to do something whereas the rest of the world is taking proper action. Many in the higher risk groups are of working age. Many in the higher risk groups don't live alone. They need to tell all household members to stay at home, where there's someone vulnerable. They need to use taxpayer funds to help financially those who can't wfh otherwise people (however vulnerable) won't stay at home. They have bills, mortgage, rent to pay. We can afford it - billions is available for white elephants like hs2 - but for it to happen we need a government that values lives.

My understanding is that elective surgery will cease. Therefore that will free up the anaesthetic machines... which is usually 2 per theatre. So that's two patients that can be ventilated.

My concern is the lack of ITU trained nurses to look after them as the theatre staff won't have the skill set but will be expected too