Student nurses to qualify 6 months early. Would you?

[DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou]

There's big talks of letting 3rd year student nurses qualify 6 months early to cope with the current situation. I think the initial idea of asking retired nurses to return was bloody abominable and unrealistic.

Our uni has emailed us putting word out that they may be asking us soon.

Anyone in the same boat? Or have feelings on this?

I am a nurse (although currently on maternity leave) and this is not something I would necessarily agree with. The final placement is a really important time for assessing whether the individual can cope with their own workload of patients. They surely cannot expect newly qualified nurses to deal with ventilator dependant patients..

What is the structure of a nursing degree?

How much do you learn/what do you do in the last 6 months?

For my degree I wouldn’t really have missed much say if we hadn’t done the last semester - I spent it writing my diss.

But other degrees are actively teaching right up till exams - if nursing is the same I’d be worried about them not actually knowing everything they needed to.

If they’re just marking 6 months practice time until they have the hours to qualify then I’m not sure it’s such an issue?

Plus it seems like a lot of teaching is going to move online - if it’s a practical subject they’d be better off in practice surely?

*disclaimer, not a nurse or even involved in the medical progression, just think it’s an interesting question.

Nurses do a final placement in the last year where they take on greater responsibility for patients, have times when they are the nurse in charge, with a watchful back up (well supposedly, staffing dependent). It's a really crucial placement in terms of developing the skills and confidence to make the leap from student nurse to qualified nurse.

BanjoStarz there's a final placement which is 12-14 weeks long where you really consolidate your learning and really gear up for the 'real world' in terms of clinical skills and managing case loads.

It could argued that qualifying early would be an extension of this, I suppose.

I'm assuming they would need extra support, something I'm not sure qualified nurses would be up for doing. A lot of them hate students, let alone those who qualify early and may rely on them.

It also depends on the student, I know excellent student nurses who I think would do really well. I know others who would simply be a burden to the team.

Or we could, you know, go back to the old SEN system when a lot of nurses learned their craft on the wards as they went, and it was mainly the more academic nurses who had to have a degree...most of the nurses I know think it was one of the silliest decisions ever to get rid of that SEN system.

As someone else has said, it depends on the nurse. If it wasn't so serious I'd be watching the Headless Chicken government (some of us appear to have) elected with amusement. It's like a really bad Carry On film come to life. Good job this lot weren't in power during WWII, eh!

Obviously it isn't ideal, so in an ideal world wouldn't happen, no-but the situation is pretty mitigating so what is there to say really. Pairs of hands are needed and anyone who thinks otherwise I think is a being unrealistic and surely not factoring in quite how many people will need very basic forms of nursing care and monitoring on a loop whilst trying/waiting to access more specialist attention, or having already received intubation etc.

I think it is a terrible idea for two reasons. 1) this is the nursing cohort who will have qualified without a bursery so they should receive some form of financial compensation if this plan were to go ahead, but also 2) NQNs are not magically experienced because they get a PIN from the NMC, they are exactly as experienced and qualified as they were the day prior. Making them qualified in a pandemic is asking for negligence as the support of the other nurses would be taken away

I’d want to know how many nurses normally fail, or have to re-do elements of their final placement? Otherwise you are automatically passing students as qualified when they may not be ready. I would not be happy as a patient or if it was one of my family members. At least when they are students, you know they are being monitored. But I can see the reasoning- better this than nothing. It’s a difficult one.

I think should it end up being ‘all hands on deck’ a student nurse 6 months away from qualifying is still a lot more qualified than a HCA for example.

I can see why they’re talking about it. As the poster above said during the World Wars people volunteered to be nurses and then learnt on the job. Considering we could be heading for a huge strain on our healthcare system heading back to this kind of system might be something that happens.

Given that it’s been 4-6 months between accepting a job and starting whenever I’ve moved around in the NHS, it would make more sense for them all to apply for jobs now, then continue as normal. In fact, possibly more useful as then they’d be supernumerary on wards instead of being counted as a full member of staff.

Unless the NHS suddenly finds the admin capacity to cope with all the referencing and background checks for all the new staff we realistically need.

I can see both sides - I'm not a nurse or nursing student, but I have been a student (even if it was some years ago!). I wonder if this did happen, would more experienced nurses be put in the higher pressure environments such as intensive care / high deoendency, and maybe the newly qualified / almost qualified nurses take their places in clinics etc?

Thus essentially covers the final placement and so wouid mean that the level of supervision could be reduced, and the paperwork burden removed from the supervising nurses. And freeing up their time is a significant aim. Not the actual interactions with junior colleagues and the need to ensure new arrivals are properly settled into their roles - that should happen with all new staff - but the specific degree paperwork

I expect that they will have had a look at how many people really needed significant intervention during this phase and whether anyone actually failed, before reaching this decision.

I'm not sure qualified nurses would be up for doing. A lot of them hate students, let alone those who qualify early
Why is that?

The newly qualified would not be expected to deal with ventilated patients.
They would go elsewhere to cover.
I'm a qualified nurse working in another area of the NHS now. I'm terrified of being called back as I left with severe hospital phobia after a breakdown. I simply cannot face working in that environment again.

I cannot express how important the final placement us in preparing student nurses. I think it is very unfair to suggest students give this up to fill holes in healthcare services created by years of underfunding.

Newly qualified nurses understandably need a lot of support. Asking them to have the responsibility of bring a qualified nurse without the most vital placement is hugely unfair to them, and will effect quality of care.

I am totally opposed.

Of course it would also help Border with his claim for extra nurses.

I feel sorry for this cohort, no bursaries anymore and now they’re potentially being sent to the front line of fighting Coronavirus.

And this is not just students on traditional nursing courses! One of my siblings is a family member in their final year of uni on a HCP course and has been told they will be involved. I’m really worried for them :( this is not what they signed up for.

I'm a nurse and I don't think it's wise. Would also disagree with someone saying above that a nearly qualified nurse is more qualified than an HCA, a lot of HCA's will have years more experience of hands on care. I agree this is an unprecedented situation but I think the responsibility is too much and it's unfair on the students as well as other staff and patients. Pressing pause on their training to free up qualified staff's time in practice and employing them temporarily in support roles and honouring this financially would be better I think, but practicalities would be a nightmare.

they’d be supernumerary on wards and not getting paid.

I think letting them work/extending placement times is a good idea but they need to be paid to allow them to do so.

They don't necessarily need to be qualified - if they are six months off achieving their degree they will be experienced enough to contribute significantly.

However many student nurses also have families to supoort, part time jobs to keep them afloat whilst studying etc. If they are asked to contribute to the NHS like this they should be paid accordingly.

I say this as a "would-be" nurse who had to quit because I couldn't afford to finish my degree.

1. this is the nursing cohort who will have qualified without a bursery so they should receive some form of financial compensation if this plan were to go ahead They are talking about doing this anyway, whether they qualify early or not. But that's for another thread.

Those of you who are scared at being made or others being made to work on the front line - surely you know no one can force you?

We are being asked to volunteer to qualify early. It says very clearly that we are absolutely not obliged to do this.

Surely you understand that no one can be forced?

I don't agree with them qualifying early and getting their pin. However job matching the third years now and putting everyone on placement where they will qualify and work will greatly reduce the first job transition for both the student and the ward. Ward managers can gradually increase the level of responsibility and supervision on an individual basis.

Student nurses generally have too little responsibility before the last 6 months to be ready.

If they are asked to contribute to the NHS like this they should be paid accordingly.

We would be.
Straight into band 5. We would literally be qualifying and getting our PIN 6 months early

My dd is final year radiography degree and there is similar talk. They’ve actually finished placements now other than 2 week elective (some go (were going ..) abroad etc so they will
Just miss some learning modules - all their practical stuff is signed off now
Most of them already have job offers and will just start early
She isn’t worried about COVID 19 herself being young and fit but there’s a lot of
Mature students who are parents of young children who then carrying the risk of cross contamination

The thing is, students will be asked to volunteer, but they are not well placed to understand some of the issues I have seen as an experienced nurse.

At least some of these early-qualifiers will make errors that they would not have made with full training. While both Trusts and the NMC say they support a non-blame culture, this is not, in my experience, true. These early-qualifiers will be left in a stressful situation and potentially face unpleasant consequences for making such errors. It isn't fair. Life is hard enough for newly qualified nurses now.