Lock up the old people!

[SD1978]

Deliberate title as there are so many on Covid-19 and I'd like mine answered.... if the main issue is that those over 60 are at highest risk of negative outcomes, and requiring actual hospital treatment, why has it not been suggested a mass self isolation of this demographic in the early stages, or now? Statistically, a younger adult or child requires no treatment, and can and do recover at home with no medical intervention and after they test negative recover well . The health care system in Italy has been brought to,its knees with 60+ age presentations and this is why the ICU's are making some horrendous decisions through necessity. If we advised people for a month, who were above 65- to properly self isolate the in patient impact would be drastically reduced. Or am I missing something obvious.

Given all our public services, especially the NHS, have been cut to the point that they can't cope with normal life, there is literally no way they will cope with the covid -19 outbreak we are anticipating.

If I were in a vulnerable category I would absolutely be self isolating and doing all I could not to catch this virus. One because I would not want to die before my time in a very distressing and terrifying way and two because I would not want to create undue pressure on a health service that will not be able to cope.

I have worked in an acute medical unit for the last year or so and it is always but always full and struggling to cope with the demands on it. I am terrified about what it will be like over the next weeks and months.

People will be in the horrific and unthinkable situation where they need medical treatment and they will not get it and they will die.

If I could prevent that for myself I would.

It is a fact that age, along with co-morbidities, is the major factor in whether or not you will suffer the worst consequences of this virus - that is not ageism it is just a fact and not something to be offended by.

I agree OP. I dont understand this cry of "oh they'll be bored and lonely"- er yes, thats what self isolating is. Why is it when an elderly person doesnt want to self isolate its "understandable" yet when a younger person doesnt its "selfish"?
Its not like they have to isolate for 6 months. A couple of weeks would be a good start. I keep seeing posts screaming "what about my grandmother!!?"- well surely the best thing for her would be to stay indoors? This double standard for self isolation is really bloody weird.

I agree - let people make their own decisions. If self isolating is what they deem best - fine. If they'd rather take their chances, then it's up to them. Older people have many decades of life experience to help them make the right choices! Anything else is utterly patronising

This.

And 60 isn't old, anyway.

Why is it when an elderly person doesn't want to self isolate its "understandable" yet when a younger person doesn't its "selfish

Because the younger person has symptoms and could spread the disease.

People want the elderly to isolate themselves so they don't get symptoms.

There is a difference between isolating to protect others, and isolating to protect yourself.

People will be in the horrific and unthinkable situation where they need medical treatment and they will not get it and they will die

I think a lot of elderly people are taking the view, that they are currently fit and well and don't have dementia. If they die, so be it, at least the don't end up in a care home with dementia in 5-10 years time.

Because the younger person has symptoms and could spread the disease

Elderly people can and do spread Covid 19 too. Not to mention, if they go out and about, catch it and get ill they'll place even more pressure on the NHS because they'll be more likely to need hospitalisation.

I’m in my 50s with respiratory issues. I’m self-isolating at home and prepared to do so until October. Not sure what I’ll do if my work say I can’t work from home though.

If every one self isolates, who will fix things if they break down?

I am thinking the Telecoms companies I.e. The internet, hmm, no FB 😳😳

Well I am 55 and I have a 15 year old some who has mental health problems, ASD and ADHD and he needs me. I am not ready to die yet at all. I certainly didn't think I'd be happy to give up an icu bed to someone younger. In Italy at he moment that would happen . So no I don't think it is exaggerated

EngTech I don’t think anyone is suggesting everyone should self isolate. The idea is that those most likely to be badly affected do so.

If every one self isolates, who will fix things if they break down?

No one’s talking about that. They are talking about elderly and high risk people self-isolating.

I think a lot of elderly people are taking the view, that they are currently fit and well and don't have dementia. If they die, so be it, at least the don't end up in a care home with dementia in 5-10 years time

I hope people are able to think about the effects on others a bit more than this suggests. People getting ill would could have avoided it risks infecting others and puts more pressure on health services.

I hope people are able to think about the effects on others a bit more than this suggests. People getting ill would could have avoided it risks infecting others and puts more pressure on health services

Exactly- what a ridiculous "suicide plan". Yes- destroy the NHS and place even more doctors under pressure just because you're worried you might get dementia. Utterly selfish.

I am encouraging my elderly parents to stay at home as much as possible as they both have multiple health issues which would put them in the high risk category. They will still have to go out for any medical appointments that can't be postponed, but I'm hoping they'll keep this to a minimum. We have also stopped visiting them, and have promised to stay in touch by phone/facetime instead; will also be picking up any shopping that they need, though I'm hoping that they might get to grips with doing it online. My biggest worry is that my dad will get stir crazy staying at home, and may just end up going out anyway. My mum is really anxious and doesn't need much convincing.

I saw lots of elderly people in the supermarket this morning, and I'm aware that they won't all be able to shop online or have family/neighbours who can help them. I'd happily pick up some shopping for them, and have looked to see whether there are any charities locally which are looking for volunteers, but I haven't been able to find any yet in my area.

I pity any over 60 year old, that has to get 5 months worth of food in, and not see a living soul, eat any fresh vegetables, or have a face to face conversation with anyone until August.
Because that’s what you’re suggesting op. This is not going away in the next few days. It will hit its peak in a couple of months. No point in self isolation this week only, then be back out as normal next week is there?

I thought the Boris plan was for retired doctors to save the NHS? So how would that work if they are locked up?

Lots of retired doctors are under 60!

But many older people will be couples so won’t not see another soul. Also we have phones, Skype, WhatsApp. Fresh vegetables can be delivered. And people don’t need to stay in until August. They can choose to come out whenever they want - unless we’ve all been confined by then.

No, that's not what I said at all @SonEtLumiere. We all have access to the same information and as PPs have said, some elderly people are taking that information to mean 'isolate yourselves at home'. For others, carrying on as normal will be more important to them. If I was elderly and living alone I can imagine that months shut up at home without visitors and going out would be hell. Not everyone wants to live to be 100.

zafferana but don’t you think older people, like the rest of us, should base their decisions not just on what is best for them and whether they want to live to be 100? This is a genuine question btw, it’s a very complex issue.

For others, carrying on as normal will be more important to them. If I was elderly and living alone I can imagine that months shut up at home without visitors and going out would be hell

It’s my idea of hell too and I’m young but that doesn’t mean I have the right to take stupid risks then whine because I’m not an NHS priority

I haven’t read it all yet but this looks like an interesting article on the difference in CFR between Italy (high) and S Korea (low) and how this relates to the age demographics of the disease spread in these countries.

Article👇

medium.com/@andreasbackhausab/coronavirus-why-its-so-deadly-in-italy-c4200a15a7bf

It is a very complex issue @SemiSkimmedMilk and I've never studied ethics, so I can't really answer it. So yes, they should be thinking of the greater good, as should we all, but chances are that when the shit hits the fan they won't be blocking ITU beds - they'll be denied life-saving treatment in favour of younger people. If they haven't got that message then they're not reading/listening to the news and paying attention to the stories coming out of Italy. Because it seems to be fairly widely accepted that we in the UK are around 2-4 weeks behind the numbers of cases that Italy is now experiencing. And they are triaging critically ill patients based on whether they are likely to survive. Those young and strong enough to be in with a good chance get the ventilators. Based on that information, I think it would be very wise for anyone over 70 and particularly those with heart conditions, cancer, respiratory illnesses and the like to self isolate. But lock them up? It's their choice, for now.

I agree it's a choice. There would be no enforced isolation, but I agree also people need to realise that those over 65 are being denied treatment based on age due to capacity and if I was in the age bracket- that would definitely factor into my thinking of what to do.

zafferana and SD1978

I agree with both of you. It looks like the government may be advising older people to self-isolate soon. I hope the advise is followed. There’s a lot of denial and wishful thinking going on.

Terrible times.