Airlines....

[treedragon]

Now airlines are moaning and there’s talk of bailing them out like the banks in 2008.

I hope not. Why should we bail out big business? If they can’t survive in a free market then it’s the way life is. Ryanair don’t give a damn about their customers. So why should we give a damn about them?

Because of the much wider economic impact if they fold?

This is a completely unprecedented situation with enough worry about without adding to that further. If steps can be taken to preserve businesses which will inevitably struggle in this period then we should.

Increasing levels of unemployment isn’t going to help anyone!

I’ve never used a plane. So I don’t really care if most of the airlines vanish.

... ummm ... because airlines are critical component of the logistical structure that underpins our global economy.

And, even if people are not all doing well individually, compared to any other moment in history, we've still got the incredible privilege to be living at a time that has seen us more prosperous than ever before.

Even if poverty still exists and is still horrible - even with austerity - being poor in 2020 is nothing like being poor in Dickensian London would have been.

I, for one, happen to think this level of well-being is worth protecting.

Now, that isn't to say "every airline everywhere" needs to be saved - of course not!

But on the whole, our travel and logistics infrastructures, big tech, etc. are the drivers behind why we're, compared to earlier times and many places around the globe still, doing well.

In conclusion: your "I'm alright, Jack" attitude is painfully naive!

Ahh so your taking the “I’m alright jack” approach to life then!

So you have no concern for airline staff? You know Joe Bloggs just trying to earn money for their family?

So you have no concern for airline staff? You know Joe Bloggs just trying to earn money for their family?

... well, and this, too, on a more macro level!

FWIW, KLM has just announced it's laying off 2k of its staff. Can you imagine being laid off at a time when your entire industry is tanking, the whole economy is tanking and - even if you find somewhere that will hire you - you may have a hard time, logistically, to go through ordinary recruitment processes?

I'm really sorry for these people!

you’ve never used an airline? what about freight? you’ve never bought anything that’s come in from abroad? think again. freight is a massive part of the airline industry.

No I absolutely do not want the airlines to “tank”

The impact would be huge. Not only from a freight perspective but also jobs.

Not everyone is Alex Cruz (BA) or Shai Weiss (Virgin). What about those who work in the contact centres, or the shops? Cabin crew? All those people losing their jobs.

Think about the jobs the airlines support who don’t necessarily work for them. Do you know how many people work at Heathrow alone? Baggage handlers, cleaners, barista in Pret, security, air traffic control tower, border control. And that’s just one airport. If airlines stop operating, the impact is fucking huge. All those jobs

Think about the bigger picture

The airlines need to survive, we need the industry & infrastructure however we can criticise & perhaps change the way certain businesses are run

Well aren't you just a peach op? YOU have never flown so you are not bothered. Just wow. What about people losing their jobs? Don't you ever buy items shipped from other countries?

I'm so glad you can't catch stupidity!

I'm bothered about the poor people in the travel industry that will lose their jobs.

Also do you have nothing in your house that hasn’t come from another country??? Highly highly unlikely.

How do you think it got here? Carrier pigeon???

I’ve never used a plane. So I don’t really care if most of the airlines vanish.

So the device on which you typed these words was produced in your home town was it?

I doubt it.

I’ve never used a plane. So I don’t really care if most of the airlines vanish.

My husband flies for work - not unnecessarily, it's not for some business meeting he could do over skype.
My family live on another continent.

But as long as it doesn't affect you, eh?

🙈😂

I'm glad you have never used a plane However I think you are being very naive as to how little this will impact your life if they do go bust!

Because when this shitstorm is over it will be nice for us to be able to go on holiday again, or return home to visit family abroad, or get international mail delivered, or deliver aid to foreign nations, or a whole host of other things that depend on airlines.

I’ve never used a plane. So I don’t really care if most of the airlines vanish.

Oh that’s fine then! Sorry, for a minute I forgot that the entire world was organised in service to your personal convenience.

We need to massively reduce carbon emissions, and reducing flights is part of that, our future needs to have fewer flights in it. This terrible coronavirus situation at least shows that there is nothing inevitable or unchangeable about our global flying patterns. When this is all over, let's not go back to the previous level of flights. I guess that probably means fewer or smaller airline companies would be part of a positive future. Perhaps governments could support people who lose their jobs at airlines - but these things do need to shift for a low-carbon future.

I wonder, in a poll of 100 random people, how many people could honestly say they feel the benefits of bailing the banks out were passed onto the taxpayer ?

Just for the avoidance of doubt, I am sitting on both hands at the moment.

Maybe if the public had felt the warm glow of the trillions spend bailing out the banks, instead of being presented with austerity as a "thank you", the OP - and others - might be more sympathetic ?

But we can’t bail everyone/everything out can we? Or can we? I don’t know.

not everyone can be bailed out but the bigger the business the more likely it will be. The issue we have with the current business models are that companies get loaded with debt & if they go bust the vast majority of workers get sod all but those at the top still manage to walk away with millions.

This may sound stupid but after all this bailing out and billions spent on Brexit and CV and all the rest. How will this country function at all?

Or do we just keep going on debt?

How nice. I’m working on reduced pay this month just to keep my job. Others have already been let go. But it’s ok because you’ve never been on a plane.
If you were about to lose your job I bet you’d be begging for a bail out.