Herd Immunity?

[alloutoffucks]

The UK approach is for most people to get this virus and try to create herd immunity. Herd immunity is being talked about as if it means that everyone who is still alive will be immune to this virus. But is that true?

I would love the opinions of someone who really understands this.

Because as far as I can see the virus has already mutated. Won't this mean that we just get a version of this virus every so often in the UK just as we get with flu? And like flu it would just continue to kill people who become in later years elderly and vulnerable?
Or have I misunderstood this all?

Purplewhite the virus may indeed change its RNA structure (mutate) however those mutations may not affect all the parts of the virus that trigger our immune response so even if the virus mutates herd immunity will stand.
Influenza viruses are highly mutagenic viruses and therefore we see new strains every year. Some more, some less pathological. Coronaviruses don't tend to mutate at the same rate.
I agree with veterinari that it is unlikely that this virus will have a dormancy.
I am not arguing that people won't die from CoVid19. They will. However I think that the government's plan of a semi controlled spread within the population is probably the least bad option.

Also with regard to repeat vaccinations there are several reasons for this. Pathogen mutation is just one of these reasons. One other reason is waning immunity within the vaccinated host. Our immune systems start to "forget" their immunity over time and therefore this needs to be reboosted with a fresh challenge or vaccine.

I feel we need to slow it down so people can be treated in a humane way by the NHS not just close the surgery doors on them.

Even vets must agree with that.

Since posting I see some large gatherings will be halted. Which will enable it to slow and provide people with slightly better treatment hopefully.

Still not convinced it wont mutate quite fast.

Nothing in any of my posts referred to treatment standards or the NHS.
I may be a vet but I'm a vet with a virology degree. You are free to disagree with me. It's no skin off my nose 🤷‍♀️ I don't see why everything has to be so confrontational. I'm not your enemy.

The herd immunity is a theory, not fact - simply because they don’t know enough about the coronavirus and it’s behaviour in people.

Also, it is completely irrelevant. Every country is facing the same issue; loads of people getting infected and they are all attempting to flatten the curve. If a recovered coronavirus patient gets immunity from the virus, every country will see herd immunity (if!).

So to me, it seems that the herd immunity is just a part of the behavioural/nudge crap to get us to not panic and to not react to the lack of response from Boris and his government. The lack of action from him has been very obvious and I think he is using this absolutely pointless theory to hide behind.

Herd immunity is the cornerstone that vaccination protocols are based on. If herd immunity is just a theory should we not bother creating a vaccine?

@BadEyeBri So why do you think WHO are recommending a different strategy? And that every other country is following to various degrees WHO's strategy?

This is why I don't think Boris is doing the right thing. WHO the international experts and every other country are acting differently to Britain. If WHO and other countries were doing the same as Britain then I would think okay, it is scary, but looks the right thing to do.
But it makes no sense at all that WHO and every other country have a different strategy to the UK.
Why does Britain think they know best?

Herd immunity is a theory for coronavirus. As the virus is new, we don’t know if we will have immunity after we have had the infection, how long we would have immunity for and if the virus will mutate.

Herd immunity is absolutely a fact for vaccinations, such as mmr, but that is not really relevant for the coronavirus at this stage - there is no vaccination available for this virus yet.

I think it is implied that this herd immunity discussion is about coronavirus only.

I really think the herd immunity strategy is a distraction or excuse from the government’s and Johnson’s inaction.
It is also a fairly handy term to use when explaining why so many will die and get ill, and to make people feel like they are not suffering pointlessly, but instead for the greater good.

Sadly though, the inaction of BJ and his government is, as I see it, likely to cause even more people to get ill and ultimately die, and it seems to me that the priority is not the human cost, but the financial cost of the virus and the measures to limit the spread.

Yes I think this is about the economy. I saw a news article this evening about how GDP would fall by 3% if schools closed. So someone has worked that out. Because that is the priority. People dying is seen as less important.

How many deaths have been attributed to austerity?

The economy doesn't mean fat cats - it means all the small businesses who risk going bust, the families thrown into poverty, the big firms who have to have mass layoffs to survive, or who don't survive. Consumer demand through the floor, supply chain already broken. Proper retiring and needing to buy an annuity finding the value of their hard saved pension pots sharply reduced.

You think the years since the financial crash were tough? This is going to be worse. It's right to care about this. It's right that the goverment cares about it too.

It is totally possible to care about both the direct and indirect effects of the pandemic. heartless to do otherwise, I'd say

I understand herd immunity I really do.

I come from a large family and have had all the childhood infection such as measles and chicken pox.

I just don’t think letting SARS run through a community is a good idea.

It’s more of a severe type of illness which can lead permanent heart and lung damage.

There is not evidence that catching coronavirus provides immunity from coronavirus.

I will source the WHO, the viralogists on daily politics yesterday the open source medical papers coming out of chinas Wuhan district.

Therefore herd immunity is just a theory in respect of coronavirus.

(Biomedical science graduate here, which prob doesn't mean much, just that I've a ok understanding, more so than my kids lol)

I'd like to understand something...
We don't get immunity to the common cold, right ? Which is a corona virus (?)
So, Why do the think we'll get immunity to covid19?

Flattening the curve makes total sense. Controlled spread. Delay till summer, make it manageable.

But herd immunity seems like a gamble, that theory might not work.

China might see numbers explode again when social distancing ends.

Did people develop immunity to spanish flu?

Spoke to a friend who is a dr and works in public health, herd immunity is our only long term option as it cannot be eliminated - shutting the borders, making everyone stay home like in China works temporarily but as soon as it relaxes restrictions one case brought in will restart it. Let the well people catch it and protect the vulnerable is literally the only way to prevent ongoing outbreaks, it will have small ones but nothing like this in the future because even if it mutates we will have partial immunity. So unless you are in a risk category catching it is your best option

Yes Corona or Crown virus is the grouping for the common cold, flu and sars.

Sars being the worse type.
This is SARS-COVID-19.

That’s why all other countries are trying to put a firm lid on it except us.

Yes it’s hard to get immunity for very long from cold/flu virus otherwise we would have found a cure for the common cold by now.

You can however inhibit most of that group with strong antivirals. They do have side effects though.

onup the common cold is a group of clinical signs caused by many different pathogens some viruses, some bacteria. You will develop immunity to the pathogen you catch but a) that immunity will wane with time b) the immunity won't protect you against a different pathogen. That's why we will get the cold more than once.

Yes because they mutate every few people.

Like I said maybe this special one is more stable.

No purplewhite, not because they mutate but because they are totally different entities. Mostly the common cold is caused by rhinoviruses not coronaviruses.

Catching it is not your best option.

Dangerous advice.

You will realise I’m right in about 6 weeks.

Yes but they behave in a similar way. Ffs.

We don't get immunity to the common cold, right ? Which is a corona virus (?)

Because they are different viruses.

They are similar.

Never mind. Stay safe.

I would be a lot more reassured if there seemed to be some evidence to support that herd immunity would work for this virus. I appreciate it's a new virus, so it's likely too early for this evidence, which is why other countries seem to be taking a much firmer approach to control it.

I want an evidence based approach, if there's no evidence that herd immunity would be possible, then why are we risking it??

Sorry, I meant that the cold viruses are not the same whenever you catch a cold but they are similar. So when get a cold and then get another one soon after it’s a different virus not the same one