Britain only country in the world actively trying to encourage spread of coronovirus

[AmIAPenguin]

So the U.K. isn’t reporting actual numbers as they are refusing to test people for the last month and have today admitted they want the whole population to get it as a herd immunity. But this means they kid and a will die in the meantime and why they are not closing schools or sporting events.

They don’t want people to even log when they get it / are ill. So to the rest of the world they’ll seem like lower numbers.

Has anyone got any scientific data on if you do get immunity? The last I saw was that the immunity level was low and not long lasting and you could get it again?

Apologies for the daily mail link, if anyone has any non daily mail links I will add them.

But for weeks I’ve been wondering why the UK governance and PHE have refused to test people who have clearly had it, and actually been encouraging their partners to go out in the community. They’ve been wanting it to be spread. Have they not seen Italy? If they don’t flatten the curve so many elderly and disabled are going to die because we are the only country doing this.

Maybe in the future it’ll work and we’ll be the last country standing but it seems bonkers at the moment.

twitter.com/leehemmings91/status/1238380740062175232/photo/1

Contain lasted for about 5 minutes, we brought people back from Wuhan and quarantined them, none of them had it, great. Then we let people come back from lockdown areas in Italy and said, oh just self isolate if you have symptoms.

This could go two ways, other countries could start to follow our 'science'.
Or, we could become pariahs. In that situation would other countries intervene?
If China had said at the start 'oh well your all going to catch it anyway, so we will do nothing and just recommend you all wash your hands' there would have been global uproar.
There is no use the rest of the world taking extreme measures if we are going to spread it around, it just wont work. The world needs to be on the same page. Time will tell us which page was the right one.

@Veterinari agree. Maybe will will end up being one of the most resilient countries after this has died down. Both physically and psychologically. We're going to need it when the full reality of Brexit also hits.

You CANNOT contain a virus like this unless an entire country can spend 4 weeks locked up in their houses.
And how does anyone think that would work? There are probably 10,000 people with the virus in the uk.

My mum is 83. Her view if she gets it and dies then so be it. If not this something else will get her.

The generations who have witnessed wars must see us stockpiling toilet roll and think we're pathetic.

4 weeks at home seems a small price to pay for thousands of lives.

Shame on you.

Defthand, ok, after 4 weeks in isolation and no cases in the UK, great. Then some tourists come in from Country X and bring the virus back. No one is immune, still, so the virus takes hold again. Do we go back into isolation? How many times?

The whole world needs to go into isolation at once to contain this.

You CANNOT contain a virus like this unless an entire country can spend 4 weeks locked up in their houses.

4 weeks at home seems a small price to pay for thousands of lives. Shame on you
Are you happy for every nurse, doctor, firefighter, care worker to self isolate too? What will happen to the sick and elder if everyone oles home and locks the door for a month? When a pensioner has a stroke or a kid gets meningitis and the prerecoed on 111 says remain in your home until the middle of April? When a house goes up in flames and the whole terrace burns because the fire fighters are at home?

If I was Trump and I heard that policy, I'd be closing the door on us completely.

4 weeks at home seems a small price to pay for thousands of lives. Shame on you

That's obviously stupid. Are you happy to go 4 weeks without electricty? Without gas? Without water?

If everyone self isolates for 4 weeks millions will die. Unless what you really mean is only people not vital for the running of society in the short term self isolate, like not doctors, nurses, engineers, utilities workers, delivery drivers, shop workers, bank and IT system management staff, and literally MILLIONS of others. In which case, why isolate?

If YOU are at risk, self isolate. You cannot suspend the running of the country or you will cause wholesale destruction and chaos. How long can you go without water before people have to go back to work. All it takes is 1 ruptured water main and now thousands of people are without fresh water. That'll kill them a fuck load faster than Corona virus.

I hadn't twigged it before, but now I have:

The government isn't doing this because they don't want to stop the virus from spreading, or to protect business etc. They are doing it because they cannot actually prevent it from eventually spreading. They could stop one outbreak, but they would not be able, in practice, to lock us all down for 2 months, and then relax it, and then do the same thing again and again every few months every time a new outbreak starts again. Enough people have it in the world that even if every case in the UK is resolved and the infection rate is zero, it will just come back in a few weeks or months. Nothing this government could have done, now or earlier, would have prevented that.

All the government actually has is a few blunt instruments (e.g. ask individuals to self isolate if symptomatic, ask households to self-isolate, close all schools, close all workplaces and bars and restaurants, etc.) that they can use once, maybe twice, at a chosen moment, not indefinitely. Also there are counterintuitive effects: if the children are not in school, then they will have to go somewhere, and they could potentially spread it even more.

However, what's more important is that each of us can each do something to slow the spread.
-We can look at each and every face-to-face social interaction we have planned, and assess whether it's essential or can be cancelled or replaced by something else.
-We can stay home for a modest sniffle, even if it's inconvenient and costs money or results in lost holiday because some employers lack the flexibility or resources to "foregive the absence" or are complete dicks even if they have that flexibility.
-We can cancel our holidays and concerts and nights out, even if we lose money and it's disappointing.
-We can cancel our hair parlour appointments and exercise in the park, or even at home, instead of going to the gym
-We can meet up with friends by video instead of in person.
-If we work in roles of any authority, we can use our full discretion to allow people any and all flexibility that would help them to slow the spread ( relax deadlines, let people work from home wherever possible, allow staggered commuting hours where commuting cannot be avoided, etc.)

Regardless of what the government does, all of these types of actions can save lives by slowing the spread and flattening the curve.

www.flattenthecurve.com/

Exactly, flatten.

Strangely, I feel better about this bit because it's in my hands now. There is something I can actually do.

Sleeping and that's exactly why people won't self isolate either. Too much pressure to go to work.

To all the attacks: of course I don’t mean everyone should social distance. Essential services must continue, but with heavy precautions for these people (masks etc).

Look what China, South Korea and Singapore did—yes it is possible to contain this virus. Thus is WHO advice! It just takes community buy-in. But as a society we’d apparently rather just sacrifice our vulnerable. It’s deplorable.

Help, I've been doing that since Chinese New year.

What I can't stop is mixing with 2000 people everyday at work. I can't stop getting up close to people at work. I can't stop that for my dc either.

Deft.. We all get vulnerable if we can't access doctors for simple problems that explode..... We will not be able to access 111...People totally forget about 111!!!

Well said flatten

If you watch the expert on news night yesterday (he's a scientist not a politician) you will see why they are taking this approach and it makes sense to me. I have friends who work in public health, it's not possible to stop the virus, it's about slowing it down so the health system can cope

Nobody expects to stop it completely but we’re doing nothing to slow it down. The health system won’t be able to cope unless we start taking this seriously. Have you seen the hospital tents they have in Italy?

@halcyondays, but we are doing something, or at least we are being asked to do something.

It makes bigger headlines if you close the schools, but if everyone would actually follow the advice, stay home from work and avoid social contacts for 7 days as soon as they see even mild symptoms, it could make quite a significant difference in the rate of spread.

I am no fan of this PM but I am pleased he acknowledged that what has asked people to do is not as trivial as it sounds. People will miss work, family events, holidays, etc. I think they asked for 7 days' self isolation because they realised that would bring most of the benefit, and if they asked for 14 days, more people just wouldn't do it.

It's almost like the wartime equivalent of keeping lights off at night to make it harder for bombers to see targets: if one house keeps the lights on then all of the neighbors are also in danger … but the problem here is, you cannot see the bombs and then they hit with a median of 5-6 days' delay … this is genuinely difficult, and we need everybody to do it.

The contain phase could have happened in China in November/December 2019, but it didn't. We need to move on and plan for next year and the year after. I'm surprisingly content (even with a 76 year old mother) with the current plan and just happy to have a plan for the now and next year. Sign me up as part of the herd.

@TooTrueToBeGood I was waiting major surgery to prolong my life and reduce my risk of dying of sepsis. If i get those complication now and there are no theatres i am dead, the same as if i get Covid. I will not be someone who's a candidate for an ITU bed now. Please see the other threads were people with the usual conditions etc are already struggling for treatment. I am not exaggerating, nor are the many many people in the UK over 60, with asthma, transplant, cancer etc.

I have already self isolated for the past month, but my DH is one of the front line staff where you get to work from home, so every day he is terrified that coming home he will kill me. He has to keep working if you self isolate, its not that easy.

the government are not trying to flatten the curve, they've tried to peak it. Yes China will see a second wave when they come out of quarantine, but they'll have a slower steady stream.

If anyone has any links to peer reviewed papers with the immunity findings please let me know.

You CANNOT contain a virus like this unless an entire country can spend 4 weeks locked up in their houses

of course I don’t mean everyone should social distance. Essential services must continue,

Well there you go. As long as nurses, doctors, pharmacists, police, firefighters, care home works as a minimum are going out to work, plus all the admin staff etc around them, petrol stations needs to in so thry can get to work, shops needs to sell basics. And someone needs to care for their kids. So either childcare workers, schools etc or family. In many cases that family are grandparents or even great grandparents which is exactly who were meant to be protecting.