Self Employed & Screwed

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

I can't help but feel the self employed are being ignored in this self isolation & sick pay matter. For me, I'm in a situation where

• I'm not eligible for SSP as I'm self employed (not that SSP would cover even my rent, let alone council tax etc)
• I'm in the first year of a start up business, so I don't have significant reserves of cash
• I can't get accident / sickness income protection insurance due to a pre-existing condition that affects every part of my body to a greater or lesser extent
• if I don't leave the house and see the public face to face then nothing gets sold and not a penny comes in.
• most of my income comes from large scale public events, which could shortly be banned, as they have been in France and elsewhere. Organisers may or may not return pitch fees. Most of the rest of my income comes from private parties, which could also be cancelled.
• It's a highly seasonal business, with summer being peak season; it would be one thing if this happened in winter but a week of trading in summer is worth a month in the winter
• I'm renting privately, so if I can't pay the rent due to the above, I'll get evicted and I'll find it impossible to rent a new place when my business has just folded and I have a dog. The dog cannot be rehomed as he has behavioural problems.

What the fuckity fuck am I meant to do if told to self isolate? People like me are genuinely screwed. I honestly think that if I thought I'd come into contact with someone who has coronavirus I'd have to avoid seeking medical advice for fear of being told to self isolate and hence losing my home.

My Plan A is to not get coronavirus. Plan B is to try to come up with a viable Plan C...

Our contracts are fairly straightforward - if we are open, clients pay, if we're closed, no charge. So for us plan A, B, C and D is to fight to stay open somehow. But if the government orders all childcare closed we're pretty powerless.

IMO the Government's relaxed response has contributed to the current situation. You should be compensated, but under the Tories I suspect you won't.

I agree that your group is being ignored and I think it's bloody stupid that people are telling you to just get a job. Or to rehome your dog.

I think we need to all be emailing our MPs about self-employed people falling through the (huge) hole in the net, both out of humanity and because of the practical consequences on us all.

We need people to be able to afford to comply with self-isolation.

We were officially stood down from work today because of this. It's been labelled as a H&S issue. Weve spent today searching for something else to cover us. DH has pretty much been told that the only work he can start this week is some 3 hours away.
It's a shit situation, not too dissimilar to yours OP.
Our dog is on his 5th home (5th when he was 9 months old and weve kept the dozy so and so since, hes 3 now)
But he would also likely be PTS, hes got so many behavioiral issues.
Our landlord has a clause of if rent is 2 weeks late that he starts eviction process
Weve got a child, plus the dog, and it's hard to get anywhere to live anyway.
Weve also had pur savings decimated by helping out DHs parents in January. We had 6 months of work lined up so we weren't worried at the time.

Just wanted to share theres lots of us in the position where things are horrifically shit. Let's hope it doesnt come to us being contained.

Petition to Government to allow self employed people to receive SSP

Click HERE

The summer months are meant to sustain me though the winter.

Surely then, if you had the two weeks to be isolated, that would be the time that you use the summer income to sustain you?

Sadly, I'm in the camp that if you run a business it should be sustainable to cover holidays, sickness etc. You pay lower tax and ni, so planning for such eventualities. You get the perks by contributing less to the system and then expect to receive the benefits that the rest of us pay fully into!

Self employed people don't pay lower tax at all, they have exactly the same income tax rates. NI structure is different and results in a slightly lower contribution but actually the biggest difference is that there's no employer NI paid

This is not nornal eventualities

Also - last figures show nearly 17 million employed in small businesses. About 6 million of that is 1 man bands, but the rest are employed by someone else.

Sadly, I'm in the camp that if you run a business it should be sustainable to cover holidays, sickness etc. You pay lower tax and ni, so planning for such eventualities. You get the perks by contributing less to the system and then expect to receive the benefits that the rest of us pay fully into

That is indeed a 'sad' and simplistic point of view.

People gave a serious lack of understanding here. I don't have a penny do save for holidays or sickness. Some weeks I barely break even, other weeks, not so bad. I do my job because of the flexibility it allows me to care for my disabled husband and 2 autistic D.C, trust me when I say there are absolutely NO perks to this.

Apparently in Italy there is a mortgage holiday for those in quarantined areas.

What are the chances of our caring and compassionate Tory government implementing the same policy here? I’d say next to zero.

How would changing to a Ltd company help SSP? I don't think you can claim it back off the government any longer.

My sister owns an a company which has a huge event in November which has people coming from all over the world. It relies on sales for it throughout the year to pay overheads including 6 staff wages, plus herself.

The uncertainty will stop bookings, as people wait to see how things pan out. 7 families are likely to be thrown into financial chaos as she will not be able to pay them.

It's not just self isolation that's a problem but fear.

No the governess don't pay ssp. It's possible that this might be one of the support measures they offer for small businesses as part of the budget. Even then they might make it deductible from paye payments rather than actually paying it in.

'Just get a job'

'Form a ltd company'

'Claim UC'

Not one of these suggestions is reasonable or practical, especially in the short term which is where SE people suffer their losses. It's incredibly frustrating to be in this position and people be so dismissive.

DH and I run our own business , people think we’re rolling in money and don’t realise how difficult it is
If we all have to self isolate and have no customers as they’re all self isolating , yep , we’re screwed too

I have a ltd company, we just took out a business loan and an overdraft for cash flow as we had just signed a very large contract and had to pay out for materials, consummables, plant hire etc before the first invoice was due. That contract is now on hold due to the virus, our other main income is from training which has completely dropped off because of the virus and companies not wanting to put their staff in a room with a group for a few days.
I am literally fucked unless this calms down incredibly quickly. I can't get any universal credit, a minimum wage job would not cover the business costs and my partner who i live with would absolutely not support me in any way through this.
I actually think that people panicking and a lockdown is what will screw the country.

And if we go in to some sort of lockdown then chances are there will be very few jobs available; any business which relies on physical customer presence will be doing layoffs or redundancies. Nobody will be hiring.

Also self employed, business ticking along ok now but when/if mass quarantines happen that will be it.
I'm very lucky though in that dh earns enough to support us.

Watching with interest to see if government does anything to support us. Best guess is no.

@SoloMummy

I would be interested in hearing your reply to this:

Self employed people don't pay lower tax at all, they have exactly the same income tax rates. NI structure is different and results in a slightly lower contribution but actually the biggest difference is that there's no employer NI paid.

@solomummy You miss the point. People like me manage our summer income over the winter because we are able to plan for it. This, for me, is when I should start earning again. I don't pay lower tax. I don't get sick or holiday pay, which again I plan for and accept. Currently my work is cancelled for the immediate future and I don't know when I will be able to earn again or if my business will survive.

It's just not as simple as you make out.

"I am literally fucked unless this calms down incredibly quickly.
.....
I actually think that people panicking and a lockdown is what will screw the country."

Your financial worries are making you panic, which is natural

I suspect many people posting "it's just flu ... panic ... hysteria* are those who will be financially screwed by the proposed measures for this crisis,
which would safeguard most of the economy

Not exactly neutral observers

It looks like resolving this crisis will involve some sacrifice

• the question may become whether this is to be the livelihoods of a small %, or the lives of a small % of elderly & vulnerable

• *the question may become whether this is to be the livelihoods of a small %,

or the lives of a small % of elderly & vulnerable*

It will be both. The government cares about neither of there groups.

Those who are thinking "I'll just work from home and continue to get paid as normal" aren't neutral either.

I also think you underestimate the potential scale of livelyhoods lost and the long term impacts of that. Recession and poverty costs lives in the long run.

I'm also self employed, I'm currently in a day rate contract but I'd says there a 50% chance that will be cancelled.

Luckily they so have to give me one month's notice.

I also run my own consultancy which I can do from home and one of my clients is likely to need a lot of support while this is going on or if it increases in intensity. So I can pick up some income there though he'll soon start to see his business losing money and won't want to pay for consultancy.

Also luckily for me I have no mortgage, no debt, plenty of savings (though I am watching them reduce by the day as the markets crash!) and parents who will always help me financially.

But it's still a worry. I am 52 and my plan currently is to work to put money in my pension. So every month I don't put money in is less support when I'm older, or longer I have to work before I can draw it.