Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

That's an interesting distinction you make there, @StealthPolarBear. You mean that COVID-19 is seen in the UK, but not elsewhere, as having hastened the death of those already near-death, but not actually killing people who were in full good health when they caught the virus?

Apologies if someone has said this, but from the Chinese evidence it doesn't look as if children are getting infected, then going around asymptomatically or with only minor symptoms and transmitting it to older relatives, etc. They may actually NOT be transmitting it, which would be a very good reason to keep them in school, rather than at home (and possibly looked after by grandparents).

We obviously need to learn more about covid-19 transmission but this paragraph from the WHO report is important:

"Data on individuals aged 18 years old and under suggest that there is a relatively low attack rate in this age group (2.4% of all reported cases). Within Wuhan, among testing of ILI samples, no children were positive in November and December of 2019 and in the first two weeks of January 2020. From available data, and in the absence of results from serologic studies, it is not possible to determine the extent of infection among children, what role children play in transmission, whether children are less susceptible or if they present differently clinically (i.e. generally milder presentations). The Joint Mission learned that infected children have largely been identified through contact tracing in households of adults. Of note, people interviewed by the Joint Mission Team could not recall episodes in which transmission occurred from a child to an adult."

They go everywhere though, not just Italy.

Culturally speaking, Chinese are big on prestige.
Italy is a massive tourist mecca and Northern Italy is an art and high fashion (famous label) powerhouse. New Chinese wealthy are highly, highly concerned with having the right image, the right label, the correct "life presentation".

This will have been a powerful attraction for new middle class and wealthy Chinese tourists to visit...Northern Italty.

*Italy

There is a new petition calling for schools to close when they have a case of Covid 19 petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300426

I’m a teacher, not in the uk and we have been assured that if our school closes that we will get paid!!

hopsalong, that quote from the WHO puts a completely different light on things, doesn't it!

I quoted it up thread and was roundly ignored (other than by a poster who said it was out of date )!

I guess it doesn’t fit the narrative of this thread

Sorry, Aridane, I missed that. I am going to the WHO site to try to work out how out of date that quote is, then.

i agree about bbc they are supressing stuff, they shut down the russian guy who said its a virus its airbourne.
then same when the woman said US werent widely testing

@Jaichangecentfoisdenom

No apologies necessary - and that WHO report Is an excellent source of info.

Date is 16-24 February

This is more recent:

www.livescience.com/can-kids-get-coronavirus.html

2.4% would still be 10 in our 60 intake primary.
if they are infectious 10 positive cases would certainly infect most staff i would think

WHO recently was quoted saying this is not a drill it’s serious.

2.4% of 60 Does not equal 10 pupils, nowhere near. I hope you aren’t a maths teacher awkward

@Totallycluelessoverhere

You didn’t read what Awkward actually wrote.

60 intake totally so am assuming 560 odd pupils....

I hope you don't claim comprehension skills as a talent!

erm yes intake 60 so 420

Or maybe 420 odd pupils but still!

Another interesting thing in the UAE is the fatwa on people who are sick attending mosque, in particular Friday prayers:

"Dubai: The UAE’s Sharia Council on Tuesday issued a fatwa prohibiting those infected or suspected of contracting coronavirus from attending congregational prayers, Friday prayer, Eid prayer and being in public places.

The fatwa made it clear that the public must follow all instructions issued by competent authorities including constant washing of hands with soap and water and covering nose and mouth when coughing or sneezing to prevent the spread of germs and viruses.

“Those suspected of being infected with Covid-19 must be quarantined and commit to treatment programme set out by health authorities” the Council said.

The fatwa also made it allowable for senior citizens, minors and those who suffer from respiratory diseases and weak immune system not to attend congregational prayers, Eid prayers, Taraweeh prayers and to perform acts of worship at home or their whereabouts rather than at mosques."

It immediately made me think of South Korea, and "Patient 31"
graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-SOUTHKOREA-CLUSTERS/0100B5G33SB/index.html

Though I suppose with church on Sunday being less of a thing in the UK than Friday prayers are in Dubai, it's not that relevant to the UK.

Though the churches have been quick to issue guidance on e.g. sharing of chalices Church in Wales

Ah, cantkeepawayforever, very wise words from the Welsh bishops.
Be interesting to know if the people who returned to the UK from Northern Italy with the coronavirus had attended Mass and received Holy Communion under both kinds.

Today in church we 'bumped elbows' from a meter away

PP asked - I’m also interested to know why Italy has been so hard hit? “

My take:

Italians embrace each other physically a lot more when greeting, even men meeting casually.

There is the tradition of “aperitifs” where people meet for early evening drinks and snacks are placed on the counter by the bar staff for patrons to share.

Catholics attending Mass will shake hands during the sign of peace; many will then go down to receive the host in their hand.

These are three major cultural differences that I have observed.