To think this coronavirus hysteria is completely OTT

[tacosplease]

I’ve just read that the NHS has declared the coronavirus “situation” a level 4 incident - the highest level of emergency.

There are only 51 known cases in Britain out of a population of 66 MILLION. None of these people have died. In the extremely unlikely event that you do catch it, the chance of death is just 2%.

So, I simply don’t understand why people are getting so hysterical about this. Far more people catch the common flu every year and no one starts panicking over that. Every time you use your car you have a 1/20,000 chance of dying yet people still drive and don’t think twice.

AIBU?

By all means be grateful if you and your loved ones aren't in one of those groups, but have a bit of fucking sensitivity towards all the people who are, and have spent the last few months hearing over and over again that it's totally hysterical of society to care about keeping them alive.

This.

Shocking posts on this thread, and idiots still justifying rubbish.

I can’t see any idiots justifying rubbish. I’m over 60 so higher risk, I’m quite happy to be seen as expendable because I am. No dependent children or elderly relatives. If I die, I die and it won’t make a jot of difference in the great scheme of things.

Shocking posts on this thread, and idiots still justifying rubbish

Why come into this thread ? You know how its going to go by the title. I find the OTT hysterical threads shocking, this one is sensible. Those threads are making anxious people feel ill - its disturbing.

I think some PPs have been defensive and looking to take offence. Am I being insensitive when I say that I'm glad that my DM has all her mental faculties at 80 because the husband of one of my best friends has Alzheimer's in his early 60s? (She herself has a lot of pre-existing health problems so is very much at risk from COVID-19.

Similarly, I don't take offence when other women share their excitement at being pregnant just because I'm infertile

And obviously I'm happy to know that my (adopted) DDs are not in any danger from COVID-19. I don't think it's insensitive to say that, because it's one thing I don't need to worry about. After all, I myself am high risk because I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and has pneumonia last year; I catch every infection going round. And my DM is 80 and has just come back from West Africa via Lisbon and she was worrying about all the people who were coughing with no thought for those around them. I'm worried myself. She's coped with malaria in Africa and viral illnesses but COVID-19 is completely new.

So a lot of us who are grateful that most of our loved ones are not under threat often are at risk themselves or have other family and friends who are at risk.

I certainly don't think any of the posts I've read were dismissive of those who are at risk. They're allowed to feel grateful that they and their families are not at risk. Plus, there's been a lot of anxiety from those who are not at risk at all, so reassurance was needed.

I’m probably at a higher risk of catching it than most on this thread!

No you are not. According to the NHS advice on Corona virus, it is clearly stated that pg women are at no greater risk that non-pg women, discounting any other preexisting medical conditions they may have.

I imagine the poster is referring to the public transport risk and increased contact with others, rather than her pregnancy.

@ShanghaiDiva fair enough, but it is worth clarifying to the OP and others, to prevent people from conflating the 'being heavily pg' with the extensive use of public transport and contact with others which the OP said in the same sentence. It can create a lot of unnecessary anxiety reading ambiguous stuff on the Internet and the fact you were having to 'imagine' what she meant was a sign it was confusing.

I think people have been whipped into a frenzy and are being quite hysterical. Conspiracy theorists and neuroses are out in force and any rational statistical analysis is just mot believed despite a level headed and appropriate response from Public Health England.

If you know anything about PHE or the Chief Scientific Officer you will know they are responsible, independent and trustworthy doctors with a ton of data and epidemiological expertise. 'They' are not being dictated to by Boris Johnson or any other dark forces of the illuminati. They are not suppressing information, they are being sensible and measured and taking a responsible view of risk. But unfortunately humans are notoriously poor at understanding probability and risk. I was at a medical conference this week and no one was getting alarmed - even those who recognise the pressures on the NHS generally and who themselves were pregnant, had underlying health conditions and elderly parents - because they understand the data.

If you present figures the people who want to be anxious and fearful focus on the worst case scenario. If you explain the China figures in terms of a 1.4b population and the numbers of deaths being miniscule as a percentage, they argue that away because of China's containment policy which no western government would do. Even though it was acknowledged that the Chinese government were caught napping and didn't act fast enough. If you point out that its such a mild disease there will have been many more people affected than counted - so the infection to death rate could be even lower than reported they turn it on its head and say no that means its far worse than reported and governments are willfully misleading the public. That they are not accurately measuring deaths. If you point out that flu is much more lethal and we live with that every year they argue about vaccines or something. Its just typical conspiracy thinking and fear mongering.

I do wonder what all the preppers and panickers will do if it isn't as catastrophic as they fear. As they work through their stock piles of loo roll and dried pasta for months and months and ruminate on the disruption on their children's education, GCSEs and A levels or the fact they didn't visit their elderly parents for months (who are in any case going to die of something anyway). Will they blame the government for having some dishonest ulterior motive? That the public were on to 'them' so they changed tack. That 'they' are lying about deaths, or the strain that 'they' (russia, china, the military industrial complex) manufactured was not as strong as 'they' had hoped? What will be the conspiracy theorists response? Will some still be living in their caves live the Millenium bug end of the worlders? Or will they be like like the flat earthers continuing to peddle their counter-factuals that we are being lied to and misled by some inter-governmental conspiracy?

The most worrying thing is that we are being infected by hysteria far more rapidly and dangerously than by Corona and that there are huge swathes of people - like those who voted for Trump in America, and those who didn't vaccinate their children against mumps - who do not want to believe science and balanced objective advice. And instead want to charge around panic buying and locking up their children.

And if it does have a rapid infection rate and higher death rate than currently forecast will they actually be satisfied and happy that their fears were justified? I think that if it is worse than currently expected we will just have to respond to the advice then - there are contingency plans in place (I've been to some of the planning meetings in the past). Pre-empting it wont really help it will just disrupt our lives more. Meanwhile I will keep washing my hands with soap and water and taking the tube to work and going to the pub for a drink. Life goes on. We actually got through a war you know by being calm and sensible people who took advice.

I can only ‘imagine’ that as I am not the op.

If you know anything about PHE or the Chief Scientific Officer you will know they are responsible, independent and trustworthy doctors with a ton of data and epidemiological expertise. 'They' are not being dictated to by Boris Johnson or any other dark forces of the illuminati. They are not suppressing information

You don't know any of that any more than i do. But when the head of NHS comes on BBC and argues very convincingly that the we've the best healthcare system in the worlds, the best or 2nd best place to catch CV19.... ignored completely the 12 hour waits in AE with no CV19, the 43k nurse shortages or 10 years of austerity or and most importantly that dr's/nurses in the nhs say exactly the opposite.

The people who head up these organisations are political appointees. Experts in their field but deeply embedded in the current political establishment.
www.gov.uk/government/news/new-chief-medical-officer-appointed

@Bouledeneige , I'm a general prepper not a panicker. And am encouraging people to trust the chief medical officer. As I do.
My concern is not the virus itself but the fact no one is prepared to cope with some minor disruption. I have MS, every bug can be a problem for me - not the bug, the knock on effect on my system because coping with bugs can cause a relapse. This is just another one.
Perhaps if politicians had not spent the last couple of years saying we should ignore experts and trust our feelings on things we know nothing about like international trade, it would be easier for people to accept what actual experts say.

Bellini,

It would be helpful if you did not conflate hard science (virology and statistics) with soft science like economics.

A key tenet of the philosophy of science is that science should be able to reliably use models to predict, one that medicine and mathematics passes admirably. Economists wittering about Brecht and trade fail every time, showing that Economics is not really a Science.

I totally trust the medical advice. I will go my own way managing my investments (have sold quite a few to prepare for a long bear market) as I have zero faith in the many economists suggesting the market has already nearly bottomed our.

Economics is not science. Why do you think I think it is?

My point is people have been encouraged to ignore.

Bellini,

It is, arguably, a social science. Social Sciences are not the same as natural sciences. Some say economics even fails as a social science.

www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/030315/economics-science.asp

Virus is a nightmare but on the flip side should really help with climate control.

@Bouledeneige re large numbers of unreported mild cases in China. The WHO has explicitly said there is no evidence for this. The WHO is v clear re current CFR. I don’t believe it is in anyway hysterical or scaremongering to believe the WHO.

The hysteria is waaaaay OTT.
All the "my anxiety is through the roof" posters who feed their anxiety by hanging out on the alarmist threads wringing their over/under sanitised hands together eagerly awaiting updates. With what seems like glee sometimes.
Not to mention the thread of people who all believe they have, or have had Coronavirus. Some going back to before the virus spread.
It's of train wreck proportions.

It's awful and really really unhealthy for many.

MAC12 I think you miss my point. If there were lots of mild cases that went unreported that would show the corona it is even less lethal than currently believed and more survivable. It doesn't serve a panic agenda. Of course we should believe the WHO.

PHE are using epidemiological data analysis based on the WHO to determine the UK strategy of contain, delay, research and mitigate. It's rational and proportionate and expert. The advice from government does not need to be preempted. The data shows the key at risk group are frail
Older people with pre-existing conditions and if it does spread it will very likely be in particular hotspots. So if there are no cases in your area you don't need to assume you have it, be tested or self isolate. No toddlers or young people have died as yet. So closing schools would not be proportionate at this stage.

Why on earth anyone thinks the government is hiding things or not telling the truth is beyond me. What the government could do with now is to have a very committed and supported civil service who can turn their energies to both the health challenge and Brexit. It's to be regretted that ministers are at odds with their civil servants and accused of bullying and belittling them.

@Bouledeneige

Yesterday spoke to a friend whose DC has Crohn's - mid 20s, v v worried.
Today met the chap who, even is 70+, still cuts peoples grass with his aging tractor but he has a heart condition... he and his wife are v v worried, i have given them alcoholic hand gel, which my employer gave me.
If the disease is kept out of the general population, then older people and those with autoimmune problems may stay safe..... but what the UK is doing is reacting not proactive.
With flu both these categories could have a vaccine.
We are behind the curve, China (assuming figures correct) has been proactive and stopped a nationwild pandemic, couldn't believe UK footie and rugby has gone ahead... plain stupid.

The numbers the uk is testing is not enough, 1/2 what Italy is doing and a fraction of Korea.

As for these people being experts? how? they've never faced anything like this.

People aren't OTT, they just don't trust a govt headed by a guy who is a known liar and has no moral compass.

If you point out that flu is much more lethal

I am very aware that at this point in time the chance of any of us getting coronavirus is minuscule and for the vast majority the infection will be mild even asymptomatic. I also am aware that until the outbreak is over it is very hard to establish a mortality rate. There are also various factors that contribute to different mortality rates across countries and areas. However, I thought provisional mortality rates for coronavirus have varied from 0.5% to 3% whilst it’s 0.1% for flu? So bearing in mind no one yet can say what the mortality rate is, flu if going by mortality rate alone is less lethal than coronavirus? However, as it stands so many more people have flu and and thus total mortality numbers will be higher too?

@Bouledeneige no I didn’t miss the point. I wish I had. There is no iceberg of unreported mild cases according to the WHO and that’s exactly why we should be shitting ourselves. The disease is what it is. Look at SARS - a Coronavirus the world successfully eradicated and refused to allow to become endemic -CFR started below current CFR for cv-19 and ended up at 10% when all cases closed. But, you know, business as usual. The WHO has been clear in that mission report & all subsequent statements - push back, contain & eradicate.

mac12 with respect you are missing the point - I am agreeing with you. I AGREE.

I work in health so I do know the people in Public Health England and a lot of health academics and epidemiologists. I am only repeating what they have said and are still saying. I am not adding or subtracting - about the highest risk groups and who has died to date. But just read the PHE advice and assessments - don't bother listening to me. They are the experts. And don't believe any alarmist rubbish. We will be kept updated and the advice will adapt and change as we know more.

And remember the strategy - contain, delay, research, mitigate. You cant leap ahead of the advice and know what we don't yet know.